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Old 01-27-2020, 07:44 PM   #1
Pogue Pogue is offline
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Probably the best write up of what happened in the pilots mind.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters...omment/ffryqoc

Quote:
With lots of traffic asking about what happened with the Kobe crash yesterday, I wrote up a response for the non-aviators to understand IIMC (Inadvertent Flight Into Instrument Meteorological Conditions) and why, once airborne, it can become so deadly. I felt this was a good write up, but mods, feel free to delete if it's not appropriate here.

----------

In response to a 'why didn't he just do [insert simple thing here]', and why it really chaps my ass:

Here's what happens when a pilot goes IIMC....

First, it's unplanned. As a general rule, its human nature to not want to commit to going into the clouds. You're flying VMC (visually), so going IMC and transitioning to the instruments is very dangerous and not planned. You end up in controlled airspace, on your instruments, re-calibrating your brain to fly on the instruments, changing who you're talking to, no longer in control of your flight route, etc. So there's a natural resistance to doing it. Plus, any helicopter pilot with more than a handful of hours has encountered some weather and made adjustments to stay out of it. It's not like every time there's a cloud you punch in.

So, instead of committing to it, you slow back and decrease your altitude. Flying at 1000' AGL and 100 KIAS? Time to drop to 500' and 80. Then 300' and 70. Then 200' and 60. Etc. This is the right move until it isn't. If you're not really decisive and psychologically ready to commit to punching in, it's easy to find yourself too low and too slow. Now you punch in anyway and you're in a way, way, way, way worse situation. Because now you're closer to the ground and too slow.

'But why not climb straight up?' asks the non-helicopter pilot. 'That's easy, right? just get away from the stuff that can kill you.... *smug face*'

Because when you're slow in a helicopter and yank an armful of collective, you have a lot more to deal with than a normal transition into IMC, which is still a **** ton.

Even in forward flight you have to ensure your scan is perfect to manage your heading, pitch, attitude, altitude, vertical speed and torque, all of which are intertwined and must be adjusted to while taking into account the impact it'll have on the others. And the radio is going crazy. Or its not because you're not on the right channel yet. And your navigation cues aren't ready (probably) for an instrument route. And even though the rule is: aviate then navigate then communicate, it's hard to just ignore the other two. Since your slow you also have to take into account that the aircraft is going to rotate more in opposition to the increased torque because you're not in forward flight. And it all very, very, very disorienting.

So this is how it plays out, tragically.... (I'm not saying this is what happened here exactly, just that it's what can happen in a similar situation)....

----

You get slow and low. You're looking for a way out. There's rising terrain in front of you, but you can only see some of it because of the clouds and fog. So you get close to ETL...maybe you can go to the left. Let's start that turn. And *poof*, you're in the cloud. ****, this is scary. Can I see outside? Yea, kind of. There's a tree, some grass, a road. Ok, I'm still kind of good....nope, now it's all gone. OK, ****! I need to be on instruments. Initiate a climb. Vertical speed is good. AGL altitude is low, but climbing. Crap, we're turning to the left at 60 degrees a second. Apply pedal to counter that. Forward cyclic to stabilize and get some forward airspeed. Ok, pitch is better...I'm not spinning...shit, my torque is too high...take a little power out...I wonder who I need to talk to now...no, don't worry about that yet. Get back to your scan...heading is good, nose attitude is good, power is good, SHIT, we're descend at 3000'/min. We're too low. Yank an armful of collective. Fixate on vertical speed and AGL altitude. Pitch is ****ed, HSD is spinning, torque is through the roof, nose goes from way down, to way up, collective still in your armpit....the end.

---

I get anxious just typing that. IIMC is scary. Anyone who says it isn't has either not experienced it, or has more experience that I can even fathom, and I've got quite a bit.

My heart goes out to everyone involved here, the pilot and his family included. He screwed up, but flying is dangerous and weather is scary and unpredictable. Rest in Peace. And fly safe out there. Take offs are optional.

-----EDIT: Some acronym explanations added----------

AGL (Above Ground Level....how many feet am I above what's under me right now)

KIAS (Knots Indicated Airspeed....how fast am I moving relative to the air around me....not quite the same as ground speed, but close)

Collective (power. Pull it up, things on the ground get smaller. Push it down, things on the ground get bigger.)

ETL (Effective Translational Lift....the forward speed you need to have to fly in clean air...it's when the helicopter becomes a lot more power efficient and easier to fly)

HSD (Horizontal Situation Display....basically the compass to show what direction you're going)
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:53 PM   #2
JohnnyHammersticks JohnnyHammersticks is offline
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Originally Posted by Pogue View Post
Probably the best write up of what happened in the pilots mind.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters...omment/ffryqoc
Wow. Just reading that scenario makes you pucker up. How terrifying.
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Old 01-28-2020, 09:29 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks View Post
Wow. Just reading that scenario makes you pucker up. How terrifying.
He never explains why the pilot was going 180mph all the while he couldn't tell the difference between up or down.
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Old 01-28-2020, 10:41 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by KCJake View Post
He never explains why the pilot was going 180mph all the while he couldn't tell the difference between up or down.
The black box that was recovered may bring some missing info into the light if data is able to be recovered. I bet those investigators already have a pretty good idea of what transpired or several scenarios that need proven just wait for it they always get to the bottom of it.
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Old 01-28-2020, 11:18 PM   #5
JohnnyHammersticks JohnnyHammersticks is offline
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Originally Posted by KCJake View Post
He never explains why the pilot was going 180mph all the while he couldn't tell the difference between up or down.
Agree 100%, this is the point I've been making from the beginning. It just doesn't add up.

And wtf is Kobe doing in a helicopter with no terrain avoidance warning system? In the fog. In mountains. Pilot didn't seem to be under any stress and was able to see while talking to the different towers. I'm certainly no aviation expert, but this whole thing just makes zero sense.
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Old 01-27-2020, 07:58 PM   #6
Megatron96 Megatron96 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue View Post
Probably the best write up of what happened in the pilots mind.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters...omment/ffryqoc
Yeah, this is part of what I meant about procedures. More than half of this is just backwards from everything I've been trained to do. Things like getting lower and slower. For a fixed wing, speed is life. Getting lower and slower is just not in the book. You keep your speed and climb out of trouble.

And five nights a week I haul a Metroliner III into BUR, so I'm passingly familiar with the area. But I've never seen it during the day. To me I know there's mountains on three sides because they're on the chart, and I've seen the lights along or near the ridges of those mountains, but I've never seen any detail. But I know enough that I know I wouldn't want to be driving around 1000 ft off the deck in clouds along their bases. It can be a treacherous place to fly.
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Old 01-27-2020, 10:59 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogue View Post
Probably the best write up of what happened in the pilots mind.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Helicopters...omment/ffryqoc
This sounds scary as **** and reading it makes me realize the obvious that flying a helicopter is much different than driving a car. atleast when we see danger ahead in a car even with just a few seconds we can make moves to avoid the dangerous outcome. of course flying is much different.

Damn man that pilot knew shit was going down and tried his best. I just hope the passangers didnt and felt nothing upon their death.

**** man what a ****ed up situation.
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