Josh Allen “debating” whether to get COVID-19 vaccine

[MTG#10]

Originally Posted by RealSNR

It's not a rushed vaccine. It was developed in a short time-frame, but it went through all three trial phases. The reason why it was so quick to develop is we threw every ****ing resource and researcher available into its development. Contrast that to developing a new vaccine for something that has almost zero attention from pharmaceutical companies or federal funding (which is basically everything). Researchers don't have the teams to assemble study participants, manage their results, review their findings, and all the other stuff that goes into developing a vaccine that I have no clue about.

For all intents and purposes, the COVID vaccine is the most researched, studied, and critically scrutinized for effectiveness and safety we've ever seen. It just happened in a short amount of time, that's all.

By rushed I meant tested, poor choice of word on my part. I'm sure it has been well researched and studied, but it hasn't been out long enough to know possible long-term side-effects, thus no official FDA approval. Wanting to wait longer until more long-term use research has been established as well as full FDA approval doesn't make someone a bad person or a "coward".

[Monticore]

Originally Posted by MTG#10

By rushed I meant tested, poor choice of word on my part. I'm sure it has been well researched and studied, but it hasn't been out long enough to know possible long-term side-effects, thus no official FDA approval. Wanting to wait longer until more long-term use research has been established as well as full FDA approval doesn't make someone a bad person or a "coward".

Why do you trust the fda more than who or the cdc or any other federal organization, they are not the good standard for safety , they regulate cigarettes , vaping artificial dyes/ flavour etc there are plenty of things you ingest daily worse for your health than this vaccine , they used ingredients and technology used in humans before .

The testing had more to do with efficacy than safety , the people who created it were most likely the first ones to take .

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Monticore

Why do you trust the fda more than who or the cdc or any other federal organization, they are not the good standard for safety , they regulate cigarettes , vaping artificial dyes/ flavour etc there are plenty of things you ingest daily worse for your health than this vaccine , they used ingredients and technology used in humans before .

The testing had more to do with efficacy than safety , the people who created it were most likely the first ones to take .

I can't say that you and I agree on many of the facets of this discussion but this is one where I absolutely do.

I don't understand the argument that it's not FDA-approved when it's coming from people who think the CDC and other government agencies are either deliberately or inadvertently spreading misinformation.

Maybe I'm looking at it simplistically but in my mind, you either trust the Federal government or you don't. So if I'm in a position where I don't trust the CDC, I'm not sure why I'd hang my hat on FDA approval because I don't trust them either.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I can't say that you and I agree on many of the facets of this discussion but this is one where I absolutely do.

I don't understand the argument that it's not FDA-approved when it's coming from people who think the CDC and other government agencies are either deliberately or inadvertently spreading misinformation.

Maybe I'm looking at it simplistically but in my mind, you either trust the Federal government or you don't. So if I'm in a position where I don't trust the CDC, I'm not sure why I'd hang my hat on FDA approval because I don't trust them either.

We should be celebrating that within 14 months from appearing in the world, totally ****ing up our normal lives, we developed the vaccine and got it into 175 million arms of Americans. This is a huge scientific achievement.

Some of those who took the shot will die. People die everyday. People have died waiting in line to get the vaccine. There is not one documented case of the Covid shots available in the USA causing a death.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

We should be celebrating that within 14 months from appearing in the world, totally ****ing up our normal lives, we developed the vaccine and got it into 175 million arms of Americans. This is a huge scientific achievement.

Some of those who for the shot will die. People die everyday. People have died waiting in line to get the vaccine. Doesn't mean it was the Covid shot.

Not saying this directly to you but I find it ironic that many in this country can take a "people die every day" attitude about the vaccine after 12+ months of lamenting every, single, last, death by COVID (and some not even caused by COVID).

There seems to be a lot of convenience in opinions about this subject and very little conviction.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Not saying this directly to you but I find it ironic that many in this country can take a "people die every day" attitude about the vaccine after 12+ months of lamenting every, single, last, death by COVID (and some not even caused by COVID).

There seems to be a lot of convenience in opinions about this subject and very little conviction.

People didn't just stop dying from other things because of the pandemic. That's the point, and it's a very obvious one. And there's nothing convenient about 570,000 excess American dead.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

Not saying this directly to you but I find it ironic that many in this country can take a "people die every day" attitude about the vaccine after 12+ months of lamenting every, single, last, death by COVID (and some not even caused by COVID).

There seems to be a lot of convenience in opinions about this subject and very little conviction.

There's definitely some hypocrisy on the surface, but just like an Alex Smith debate, a lot of it is a product of people's first-grade level of comprehension and debate, so everyone gets pigeonholed into the two extremes with no gray area.

And no offense, but the hyperbole of "lamenting every, single, last, death" is part of that (I get it... we all talk about the same stuff forever and the hyperbole comes out).

My personal issue with the whole "people die everyday" thing for the past year has been the obvious influx of deaths. The difference between an average and bad flu season is ~20k deaths, yet we're talking about 10x the number of a bad flu season dying of Covid, and that's with the shutdowns and masks and what not.

But, can you imagine 600,000 people dying from the vaccine in the next year? Half that? Ten percent of that? At ten percent or even far less, the vaccines would be deemed a colossal failure all around, much less the opportunity costs of waiting another 6 months or year to start getting shots in arms.


And I'll admit, reading this thread, I noticed the pattern of some of the people who have dismissed Covid as a real threat for the past year and have called others afraid and scared of a virus, are now what I could easily call "afraid" of a vaccine. One of those things killed 600k Americans and caused serious long term issues to many others (and we had relatively little control over it), while the other will most likely kill or cause issues for a small fraction of 600k (and has been tested and so forth).

And while I'll probably shitpost about that at some point, there's of course more to the story... and for some people, that story is they're terrible at math, and for others it's the denial of only wanting to look out for themselves... but, many others don't fall into the extreme and are simply trying to make sense of the data they come across.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

There's definitely some hypocrisy on the surface, but just like an Alex Smith debate, a lot of it is a product of people's first-grade level of comprehension and debate, so everyone gets pigeonholed into the two extremes with no gray area.

And no offense, but the hyperbole of "lamenting every, single, last, death" is part of that (I get it... we all talk about the same stuff forever and the hyperbole comes out).

My personal issue with the whole "people die everyday" thing for the past year has been the obvious influx of deaths. The difference between an average and bad flu season is ~20k deaths, yet we're talking about 10x the number of a bad flu season dying of Covid, and that's with the shutdowns and masks and what not.

But, can you imagine 600,000 people dying from the vaccine in the next year? Half that? Ten percent of that? At ten percent or even far less, the vaccines would be deemed a colossal failure all around, much less the opportunity costs of waiting another 6 months or year to start getting shots in arms.


And I'll admit, reading this thread, I noticed the pattern of some of the people who have dismissed Covid as a real threat for the past year and have called others afraid and scared of a virus, are now what I could easily call "afraid" of a vaccine. One of those things killed 600k Americans and caused serious long term issues to many others (and we had no control over it), while the other will most likely kill or cause issues for a small fraction of 600k (and has been tested and so forth).

And while I'll probably shitpost about that at some point, there's of course more to the story... and for some people, that story is they're terrible at math, and for others it's the denial of only wanting to look out for themselves... but, many others don't fall into the extreme and are simply trying to make sense of the data they come across.

You need to keep in mind, covid itself hasn't killed 600K people.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

There's definitely some hypocrisy on the surface, but just like an Alex Smith debate, a lot of it is a product of people's first-grade level of comprehension and debate, so everyone gets pigeonholed into the two extremes with no gray area.

There are a great many people here that desire the extremes, no pigeonholing necessary.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

And no offense, but the hyperbole of "lamenting every, single, last, death" is part of that (I get it... we all talk about the same stuff forever and the hyperbole comes out).

Um, yeah, that was the whole point. I was pointing out hyperbole by using hyperbole. Seriously, when the canned response to any dissenting opinion is "but XXX deaths" then yeah, that's hyperbole.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

And I'll admit, reading this thread, I noticed the pattern of some of the people who have dismissed Covid as a real threat for the past year and have called others afraid and scared of a virus, are now what I could easily call "afraid" of a vaccine. One of those things killed 600k Americans and caused serious long term issues to many others (and we had relatively little control over it), while the other will most likely kill or cause issues for a small fraction of 600k (and has been tested and so forth).

Deaths are deaths. You either care about people dying or you don't. I find it odd that you're only willing to acknowledge hypocrisy from one side when it's blatantly obvious that both sides are full of people that are full of shit. Not everybody, mind you, but a metric ton on both sides.

[Easy 6]

Our own military is not making the shot mandatory for soldiers, sailors, airman etc... is anyone else curious why that is?

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

Our own military is not making the shot mandatory for soldiers, sailors, airman etc... is anyone else curious why that is?

Because the government shouldn't be forcing USA citizens to take a vaccine against their will?

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Because the government shouldn't be forcing USA citizens to take a vaccine against their will?

The military has never had a problem forcing vaccines on its members before that I'm aware of

[Bowser]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

The military has never had a problem forcing vaccines on its members before that I'm aware of

This is no lie, lol. I remember lining up and getting like a half dozen shots all at once in basic.

[penguinz]

Originally Posted by Easy 6

The military has never had a problem forcing vaccines on its members before that I'm aware of

Good chance they have already given a large portion of soldiers the vaccine and they don't even know it.

[Cheater5]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Because the government shouldn't be forcing USA citizens to take a vaccine against their will?

Lol, did u even serve bro?


Newsflash; servicemembers aren't private citizens. Servicemembers are property of the U.S. Government. You can receive non-judicial punishment for a sunburn (damaging government property)-- ask me how I know.

My vaccination record is three pages by itself. I've received four vaccinations in one day; two in each arm--> no idea what they were for.