Brian Flores suing the NFL

[Sassy Squatch]

Oh wow, Brian Flores suing the NFL and NY Giants, alleging racism in hiring. Includes private texts from Bill Belichick https://t.co/4FVAlelLQU

— Alex Weprin (@alexweprin) February 1, 2022

Flores' suit includes texts from Bill Belichick that appear to show him congratulating him on getting the Giants job, mistakenly believing he was texting Brian Daboll. This was before Flores' interview with the Giants took place.

— Alex Weprin (@alexweprin) February 1, 2022

[staylor26]

Demeco Ryans is very young and was just in his first year as DC. He’s well on his way to being a HC.

Byron Leftwitch would already have the Jaguars job if it were up to them. He’s making rare demands for a first time HC.

Pep Hamilton is about to get a promotion to OC somewhere and is also a future HC if he keeps it up.

Jerod Mayo is a very young LB coach and is already getting HC interviews/buzz.

None of those guys have been treated unfairly. They’re all in the up and coming category. Their situations aren’t even remotely comparable to a guy like EB.

It’s hilarious that you can see that most of these HCs are former QBs and/or QB coaches, and you think being a former player is important, yet you don’t understand that most QBs are white. That’s a perfectly normal explanation that has nothing to do with racism.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by LongSufferingToady

I've been reading the comments on this thread and it's fascinating. Lots of good points and counterpoints.

However, Flores has a real good case here. Looking only specifically at the Miami coaching issue, and Belichek's goof, I think he'll succeed in court. The NFL would be good to settle.

But, each case must be taken on its own and the allegations specifically addressed. Otherwise the painting with a broad brush will tarnish innocent folks.

I am 100% certain the NFL will settle this before it ever sees a trial. He has a case judging by the Belichick tweet on the Giants' contravention of the rules and the rest of it is just a ton of dirty laundry they'll never want aired.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I don't think the issue is any kind of real mystery. Regardless of the industry, people tend to hire others who look and act like them. Considering the owners in the NFL are almost all white, it's not surprising that they have a bias towards hiring white coaches whether it's conscious or not.

Can you point me to an article or a study that backs that theory up? I disagree with that completely. People may "hang out" or be "friends" with people that look and act like them but NFL owners aren't putting their billion-dollar franchise in the hands of someone because he looks and acts like him. If they were going to use race as a qualifier they would choose black because most of the players are black and that's who the HC needs to communicate with.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

Can you point me to an article or a study that backs that theory up? I disagree with that completely. People may "hang out" or be "friends" with people that look and act like them but NFL owners aren't putting their billion-dollar franchise in the hands of someone because he looks and acts like him. If they were going to use race as a qualifier they would choose black because most of the players are black and that's who the HC needs to communicate with.

https://www.asanet.org/sites/default...ws_Release.pdf

https://insight.kellogg.northwestern...irable_like_me

Did a quick Google search and found this but it looks like there is more out there similar to that. It's also been my experience in my own career.

And let me be clear, I certainly don't think the owners are consciously not hiring people because they are black (well maybe there are some actual racist asshole owners, but I'm sure they aren't the majority at all).

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by LongSufferingToady

I've been reading the comments on this thread and it's fascinating. Lots of good points and counterpoints.

However, Flores has a real good case here. Looking only specifically at the Miami coaching issue, and Belichek's goof, I think he'll succeed in court. The NFL would be good to settle.

But, each case must be taken on its own and the allegations specifically addressed. Otherwise the painting with a broad brush will tarnish innocent folks.

I doubt the NFL needs to settle this. Flores has shown zero proof in the court documents of "racist" hiring practices. Unless he has something else this gets dismissed pretty early. Having a favorite or a candidate selected before your interview is not proof of anything other than a common practice in hiring that has absolutely zero to do with race.

Also, in regards to the tampering and tanking allegations, he does not have the standing to sue. He is not the victim of those allegations. The victims would likely be the State of Florida, United States, NFL, fans, etc.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

https://www.asanet.org/sites/default...ws_Release.pdf

https://insight.kellogg.northwestern...irable_like_me

Did a quick Google search and found this but it looks like there is more out there similar to that. It's also been my experience in my own career.

And let me be clear, I certainly don't think the owners are consciously not hiring people because they are black (well maybe there are some actual racist asshole owners, but I'm sure they aren't the majority at all).

Thank you, but neither of those articles mentions anything of what you were saying. They point to tendencies to hire people that share the same hobbies with them, have the same interests, have the same socioeconomic status as them, basically what they look for in friends/relationships. It also says that doesn't mean the hires aren't qualified either. Additionally, the ASA article mentioned that jobs that are more technical this become less true. While the NFL coach isn't a neurosurgeon like the example in the article, I think an owner signing a multi-million dollar coaching deal to the face of your franchise will tend to be more best candidate vs a "friend" type hire.

Those of us that work in a career where they've heard of the "good ol boy network" in promotions or positions understand this, for better or worse, but it has nothing to do with racism nor is it illegal.

[KC_Connection]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

Thank you, but neither of those articles mentions anything of what you were saying. They point to tendencies to hire people that share the same hobbies with them, have the same interests, have the same socioeconomic status as them, basically what they look for in friends/relationships.

I don't think you have to take a particularly big leap on this one to suggest what that may mean.

[HMc]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

Also, in regards to the tampering and tanking allegations, he does not have the standing to sue. He is not the victim of those allegations. The victims would likely be the State of Florida, United States, NFL, fans, etc.

He had a contract with the team that, according to him anyway, was terminated at some point subsequent to his declining to participate in a conspiracy to tank or tamper. I'd be shocked if the dolphins were summarily dismissed as a defendant on the basis of a lack of standing. He was a party to a contract with them. Don't see how he can possibly have less standing than '"fans, etc" .

[JPH83]

Fair questions

Originally Posted by staylor26

See, I can appreciate questions. I have a lot of them on this issue.

Like I’ve already said, maybe coaching is a profession that white people are more likely to gravitate towards. I think teaching in general is a very white profession, so it makes sense. Maybe, would be hard to get data but would be interesting to know re levels of applications, and then obviously why would white people be more likely to gravitate towards the profession. I can't think of an obvious reason but perhaps there is one

Maybe white people are better at it for whatever reason, just like blacks are better on the field? Again, question is why would that be? I come from a family of teachers and to be honest there's no obvious characteristics they share that suggest to me why they'd be good at teaching (some of them might not be tbh!)

Why is it being disproportionate only relevant when it’s disproportionately white? Why is it immediately due to racism if it’s disproportionately white? What would be disproportionately black that isn't scrutinised? Number of players would be one presumably. In which case I wonder if it's because there are a lot more objective measurables when it comes to playing the game. Obviously with coaching there's win ratio etc. but the process of getting to those wins is murkier. I can kind of see what Sorensen's athletic profile is and tbh, I hope I never see it again.

Why does nobody talk about there being more black GM’s over the last couple of years? Why aren’t they hiring these black coaches that aren’t getting opportunities? Good question

What teams specifically are racist? I feel like there are fans from every team that will say the NFL is racist, yet they would probably argue their team isn’t one of them. Almost certainly true. I imagine I'd set the bar much higher for believing the Chiefs were racist in some way

Let’s get specific if we’re going to make those kind of accusations? Are the Chiefs a racist organization?

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

I don't think you have to take a particularly big leap on this one to suggest what that may mean.

I've never picked or excluded a friend or girlfriend because of race. Have you? Also, I've never interviewed and selected a person because of race or sex.


Additionally, I've participated in several interviews in my career from both sides of the desk. Even recently, I've gone into a series of interviews with my mind essentially made up IF I knew the candidates for an internal position. Unless someone wowed me either way I knew exactly who I was going to select. We have a process and have to adhere to it but it provides good experience for everyone involved. And yes, I will likely select someone who I feel would fit in better with the team if they are close otherwise.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by HMc

He had a contract with the team that, according to him anyway, was terminated at some point subsequent to his declining to participate in a conspiracy to tank or tamper. I'd be shocked if the dolphins were summarily dismissed as a defendant on the basis of a lack of standing. He was a party to a contract with them. Don't see how he can possibly have less standing than '"fans, etc" .

Florida is an "at-will" state. Employers may hire, fire, discipline, promote employees for no reason at all. Outside of claiming he was fired because of racial discrimination, sexual discrimination or religious discrimination, he likely has no protection here.

EDIT to add: outside of contractual limitations and we don't know what his contract says regarding being fired.

[rabblerouser]

I don't care about the race card.

What about this Flores being paid to tank games??

Is he saying that the NFL isn't completely on the up and up in regards to the legitimacy and integrity of their onfield product???

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco

The Rooney Rule is technically illegal under American Law to begin with because it uses race based criteria in hiring practices.

Shhh. Don’t let Brandon hear you.

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

I doubt the NFL needs to settle this. Flores has shown zero proof in the court documents of "racist" hiring practices. Unless he has something else this gets dismissed pretty early. Having a favorite or a candidate selected before your interview is not proof of anything other than a common practice in hiring that has absolutely zero to do with race.

Also, in regards to the tampering and tanking allegations, he does not have the standing to sue. He is not the victim of those allegations. The victims would likely be the State of Florida, United States, NFL, fans, etc.

This reads like someone who doesn't have the slightest clue.

The NFL will settle long before any probability of discovery taking place.

But anywho. Is there some racism in the NFL? Yeah, I'm sure there is. I don't think that's why we are where we're at today though.

The HC cycle is a rotation of the same shitty dumb teams. The Houstons and the Lions of the NFL are just more grossly ****ing stupid than anything.

Matt Eberflus? Old bag owner doesn't want to learn new names. Replaces Ryan and Matt with Ryan and Matt.

Houston? Good ol'boy network of Jesus lovers.

It really sticks out because it's the same ****ing set of teams alternating hires every other year now.

The elite of the NFL that take the best candidate,no matter what, is hardly looking.

I think this problem will take care of itself over time but not quickly enough for everyone's lliking.

If the NFL wants to fix the issue, they should consider revoking membership to the McNairs and the Fords of the NFL.

[displacedinMN]

That was the year Dolphins players were begging other teams to trade for them, or sign them. After the games....correct?