Do you trust Veach/Reid to draft WR or DE?

[kccrow]

Why would the Jags trade Josh Allen, for starters, and then why would they do it for a late 2nd or 3rd? No way that happens. If they take Hutchinson, they'll have a really good duo of pass rushers to build that team around.

[emaw1979]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Why would the Jags trade Josh Allen, for starters, and then why would they do it for a late 2nd or 3rd? No way that happens. If they take Hutchinson, they'll have a really good duo of pass rushers to build that team around.

Because he's an underperforming 1st round pick with 1 year remaining on his rookie contract? And if they draft DE, they are heavy at the position.

[RunKC]

I keep hearing about packaging 29 and 30 to move up and I’ve gotta say I think that would be a big mistake. I understand big time players win games but goddamn man. Most of the best playmakers in this league are not high picks.

The #chiefs now have 12 picks in the draft. What are they going to do with them? @baldyNFL believes, and I completely agree, they can be bold and go after certain players with all this ammo. My report on NFL NOW on @nflnetwork pic.twitter.com/rOy5aCt69S

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 13, 2022

[OKchiefs]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I keep hearing about packaging 29 and 30 to move up and I’ve gotta say I think that would be a big mistake. I understand big time players win games but goddamn man. Most of the best playmakers in this league are not high picks.

The #chiefs now have 12 picks in the draft. What are they going to do with them? @baldyNFL believes, and I completely agree, they can be bold and go after certain players with all this ammo. My report on NFL NOW on @nflnetwork pic.twitter.com/rOy5aCt69S

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 13, 2022

I believe I saw a post somewhere about them possibly being able to package one of 29/30 and also 50 to move up in the first. If they see someone available around middle of the first I could see that being a worthwhile trade. Then maybe try to trade back down from the other 1st to regain an additional 2nd/3rd. I’d like to see some moving around in the draft, both up and down, with all these picks.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I keep hearing about packaging 29 and 30 to move up and I’ve gotta say I think that would be a big mistake. I understand big time players win games but goddamn man. Most of the best playmakers in this league are not high picks.

The #chiefs now have 12 picks in the draft. What are they going to do with them? @baldyNFL believes, and I completely agree, they can be bold and go after certain players with all this ammo. My report on NFL NOW on @nflnetwork pic.twitter.com/rOy5aCt69S

— James Palmer (@JamesPalmerTV) April 13, 2022

I'm not really sure where to find this kind of search, but according to Nate Taylor, the last teams to trade multiple first round picks in the same draft class to move up were the Jets and the Saints in 2003.

With the first rounders acquired, they selected Dewyane Robertson and Jonathan Sullivan respectively.

Man, if that doesn't demonstrate how much of a crapshoot this exercise is, I don't know what would. Those are both catastrophic outcomes. And fellas, it just isn't that unlikely to happen at all.

Do you guys remember that draft at all? DTs had become hot shit (remember the ill-fated Ryan Sims pick the year prior? Henderson, Bryant, Haynseworth all went in the first that year; Gerard Warren, Damione Lewis, Marcus Stroud, Ryan Pickett, Casey Hampton in the first the year prior).

And suddenly in 2003 we had league circles convincing themselves that coincidentally, 2003 would be the best DT class in years. Jimmy Kennedy, Kevin Williams, Dewayne Robertson, Jonathan Sullivan, William Joseph, Ty Warren - all potential franchise altering DT talents. And suddenly the Jets and Saints convince themselves that they need to move up so they can take the cream of the crop.

One of 'em lived up to the hype - Kevin Williams at 9. Warren was good at 13 (the pick that the Jets traded away along with 22 to move up to 4). And the rest? Various degrees of gigantic busts. Aubrayo Franklin went in the 5th and was the third best DT to come out of that draft.

But the Saints and Jets had a similar mindset to what we're seeing with this 'we have to trade up to get our guy!!!' crowd. They were unwilling to be patient and let the board come to them. They thought they had this whole draft thing figured out and it was some sort of exact science.

It wasn't. It isn't. They were wrong as ****. The Saints even gave up back to back picks at 17 and 18 (where the Cardinals took Calvin Pace who was again one of the better players from that draft).

It's just a real real REAL bad idea. Trade up to 21 using a 3rd? I can get behind that; it's a reasonable risk/reward. But when you decide you're going to give up 2 firsts just to move up another dozen spots or so? Aw hell no.

This is still the same front office that drafted Breeland Speaks, Mecole Hardman and CEH with their first pick in a 3 year stretch. They're a very smart front office and have a better chance of being right than most - but still a pretty decent chance of being wrong. So no, that's not a worthwhile trade-off. It's just way too many eggs in a single basket.

[emaw1979]

I never thought there was a chance of trading both 1st rounders to move up. I could see them trading up with one of their 1sts and a 2nd/3rd/etc. I also think it's very possible for them to trade up with one pick to the early 20s and back with the other 1st rounder to recoup some of the earlier trade.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'm not really sure where to find this kind of search, but according to Nate Taylor, the last teams to trade multiple first round picks in the same draft class to move up were the Jets and the Saints in 2003.

With the first rounders acquired, they selected Dewyane Robertson and Jonathan Sullivan respectively.

Man, if that doesn't demonstrate how much of a crapshoot this exercise is, I don't know what would. Those are both catastrophic outcomes. And fellas, it just isn't that unlikely to happen at all.

Do you guys remember that draft at all? DTs had become hot shit (remember the ill-fated Ryan Sims pick the year prior? Henderson, Bryant, Haynseworth all went in the first that year; Gerard Warren, Damione Lewis, Marcus Stroud, Ryan Pickett, Casey Hampton in the first the year prior).

And suddenly in 2004 we had league circles convincing themselves that coincidentally, 2005 would be the best DT class in years. Jimmy Kennedy, Kevin Williams, Dewayne Robertson, Jonathan Sullivan, William Joseph, Ty Warren - all potential franchise altering DT talents. And suddenly the Jets and Saints convince themselves that they need to move up so they can take the cream of the crop.

One of 'em lived up to the hype - Kevin Williams at 9. Warren was good at 13 (the pick that the Jets traded away along with 22 to move up to 4). And the rest? Various degrees of gigantic busts. Aubrayo Franklin went in the 5th and was the third best DT to come out of that draft.

But the Saints and Jets had a similar mindset to what we're seeing with this 'we have to trade up to get our guy!!!' crowd. They were unwilling to be patient and let the board come to them. They thought they had this whole draft thing figured out and it was some sort of exact science.

It wasn't. It isn't. They were wrong as ****. The Saints even gave up back to back picks at 17 and 18 (where the Cardinals took Calvin Pace who was again one of the better players from that draft).

It's just a real real REAL bad idea. Trade up to 21 using a 3rd? I can get behind that; it's a reasonable risk/reward. But when you decide you're going to give up 2 firsts just to move up another dozen spots or so? Aw hell no.

This is still the same front office that drafted Breeland Speaks, Mecole Hardman and CEH with their first pick in a 3 year stretch. They're a very smart front office and have a better chance of being right than most - but still a pretty decent chance of being wrong. So no, that's not a worthwhile trade-off. It's just way too many eggs in a single basket.

The time it happened before that was Washington trading 12 and 24 to go to 3 in 2000 to pick Chris Samuels who turned out to be a 6-time Pro Bowl LT, so there's at least one example of it actually working out.

I'm pretty sure the next nearest that it happened was in 1992 when Washington, again, traded 6 and 28 to go to 4 for Desmond Howard who was a phenomenal return man but never turned out to be a very good WR.

So yeah, probably not the "greatest" idea in the world. I think the Saints will be involved in one of them again this year to move up for Pickett but who knows for sure.

I don't expect Veach to be one to do it. I'd expect a move up with 29 and maybe a 2nd rounder but both 1st seems very unlikely. He'd have to be pretty enamored with an ER in the top 10 to pull something like that.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by emaw1979

Because he's an underperforming 1st round pick with 1 year remaining on his rookie contract? And if they draft DE, they are heavy at the position.

Underperforming? At what point?

He had 10.5 sacks as a rookie. He had 71 tackles and 7.5 sacks last year. He got hurt in 2020 had 2 sacks in the first 4 games, tried to come back after missing 2 games for 4 games then landed on injured reserve. So taking the injured year out he's been anything but underperforming.

Just because a guy doesn't get 15 sacks doesn't make him shit.

And how would they be heavy at the position? Who else do they have that's worth a shit at DE? Arden Key and K'Lavon Chaisson are rotational players.