Kelce cementing his HOF status

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

This you, bucko?



Maybe just go with "I come not to bury Caesar, but Praise him..." or something...

Like I said - I suspect your point was to make some scrappy underdog tale and build Kelce up by trying to argue that hard work and effort put him alongside guys who he couldn't hang with athletically.

And I'm telling you - you're wrong. 100% unequivocally, absolutely wrong.

Travis Kelce hangs with and/or demolishes every single person you've named from a strictly athletic perspective. FFS - Jason !@#$ing Witten? What are we even talking about here?

Travis Kelce's is as physically gifted as any TE to ever step between the lines. Full stop. Trying to argue otherwise in some inane effort to prop up his football savvy does a disservice to how extraordinary and rare his combination of intelligence, dedication and athleticism truly is.

Oh good grief. I brought witten and Andrews up because blocking is part of the conversation for GOAT. You cannot walk into a debate outside this bubble comparing him to gronk and completely dismiss if. You’ll get throttled. Kelce is solid enough as a blocker but he’s not elite.

You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You believe he’s a blowout in every category? I don’t believe that’s true. Even noting his extraordinary football iq, route running, and effort the GOAT discussion is really close. And it’s not crazy to suggest guys like gonzo and gronk belong in this conversation. So if you’re suggesting that he’s also more physically gifted than these guys than you’re claiming this is a blowout.

I agree with you that it’s his unique combo of everything that makes him GOAT. I don’t think it’s crazy or upsetting at all to suggest that on physical talent alone, he isnt. Again that is not saying he’s anything short of exceptional on physical talent alone.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Oh good grief. I brought witten and Andrews up because blocking is part of the conversation for GOAT. You cannot walk into a debate outside this bubble comparing him to gronk and completely dismiss if. You’ll get throttled. Kelce is solid enough as a blocker but he’s not elite.

You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You believe he’s a blowout in every category? I don’t believe that’s true. Even noting his extraordinary football iq, route running, and effort the GOAT discussion is really close. And it’s not crazy to suggest guys like gonzo and gronk belong in this conversation. So if you’re suggesting that he’s also more physically gifted than these guys than you’re claiming this is a blowout.

I agree with you that it’s his unique combo of everything that makes him GOAT. I don’t think it’s crazy or upsetting at all to suggest that on physical talent alone, he isnt. Again that is not saying he’s anything short of exceptional on physical talent alone.

Blocking comes up in GOAT conversations if you are talking about Olinemen, not TEs. No one remembers who the greatest TEs are based on blocking. That’s like judging GOAT QBs based off of their play action pass ability. How good of a blocker was Jerry Rice? No one knows or cares. History will look back on Kelce and see one of if not the greatest TE to ever suit up.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Blocking comes up in GOAT conversations if you are talking about Olinemen, not TEs. No one remembers who the greatest TEs are based on blocking. That’s like judging GOAT QBs based off of their play action pass ability. How good of a blocker was Jerry Rice? No one knows or cares. History will look back on Kelce and see one of if not the greatest TE to ever suit up.

In his prime, Jerry Rice was considered the best blocking WR of his era and all time. It was brought up in just about every televised game he ever played.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

In his prime, Jerry Rice was considered the best blocking WR of his era and all time. It was brought up in just about every televised game he ever played.

Did they bring that up when he was inducted into the HOF? Something like listing his stats and then adding a blurb about how amazing of a blocker he was?

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Did they bring that up when he was inducted into the HOF? Something like listing his stats and then adding a blurb about how amazing of a blocker he was?

Jerry did in his speech, iirc. Someone did. Maybe it was one of the commentators. Don't believe a particular stat was brought up though it could've happened.

Not sure why this is an emotional issue for you. I related an indisputable fact, nothing more.

And part of a TEs responsibilities is blocking. In fact, TEs that don't/won't block are not long in the NFL. See Jimmy Graham as the most recent and visible example. He specifically declined to block after leaving NO and became a non-factor as any kind of offensive weapon immediately after.

[tredadda]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Jerry did in his speech, iirc. Someone did. Maybe it was one of the commentators. Don't believe a particular stat was brought up though it could've happened.

Not sure why this is an emotional issue for you. I related an indisputable fact, nothing more.

And part of a TEs responsibilities is blocking. In fact, TEs that don't/won't block are not long in the NFL. See Jimmy Graham as the most recent and visible example. He specifically declined to block after leaving NO and became a non-factor as any kind of offensive weapon immediately after.

It’s not really emotional for me. If it came out as such my apologies. I don’t disagree that blocking is important for TEs, just that when deciding on the GOAT or not blocking won’t be the factor that it’s being made out to be.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by tredadda

It’s not really emotional for me. If it came out as such my apologies. I don’t disagree that blocking is important for TEs, just that when deciding on the GOAT or not blocking won’t be the factor that it’s being made out to be.

Cool.

Maybe someday. But the case is still being made right now that Gronk is the greatest TE to ever play because of his elite receiving skills plus his incredible blocking skills in combination.

It's the alchemy of the two skillsets in one package that make Gronk a serious candidate for greatness, not one vs. the other.

Now someday maybe TEs will become so receiver-oriented that they won't be asked to block anymore, or maybe the league will install a reg that prohibits TEs from blocking or whatever. But for now, at least as i hear it discussed, blocking is still integral to what a TE does.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by tredadda

Blocking comes up in GOAT conversations if you are talking about Olinemen, not TEs. No one remembers who the greatest TEs are based on blocking. That’s like judging GOAT QBs based off of their play action pass ability. How good of a blocker was Jerry Rice? No one knows or cares. History will look back on Kelce and see one of if not the greatest TE to ever suit up.

Blocking is way more of an important consideration for a tight end. Of course a pure blocker is not going to be considered GOAT. But with witten you have an exceptional blocker who was also a very good receiver (no, I’m not suggesting he’s anywhere near kelce overall). But with gronk you have an exceptional receiver who was also a dominant blocker. It absolutely matters if you’re talking best of the best of the best .

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Oh good grief. I brought witten and Andrews up because blocking is part of the conversation for GOAT. You cannot walk into a debate outside this bubble comparing him to gronk and completely dismiss if. You’ll get throttled. Kelce is solid enough as a blocker but he’s not elite.

You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You believe he’s a blowout in every category? I don’t believe that’s true. Even noting his extraordinary football iq, route running, and effort the GOAT discussion is really close. And it’s not crazy to suggest guys like gonzo and gronk belong in this conversation. So if you’re suggesting that he’s also more physically gifted than these guys than you’re claiming this is a blowout.

I agree with you that it’s his unique combo of everything that makes him GOAT. I don’t think it’s crazy or upsetting at all to suggest that on physical talent alone, he isnt. Again that is not saying he’s anything short of exceptional.

Peak ability it IS a blowout.

Tony Gonzalez had more than 1,000 yards 4 times in 17 years, Kelce's done it 6 times in a row. Tony G had 5 years of greater than 90 receptions - Kelce's gonna click off his 5th consecutive such season this year.

Tony never once had a single season where he averaged more than 9 yards/target. Kelce has averaged 9 yards/target for his career.

Moreover, you're acting like your counter-examples were some pile of lazy, braindead mongoloids. They weren't - those guys were extremely smart players in their own right.

I ask again - what do ANY of those guys bring to the table physically that Kelce can't answer? Gonzalez doesn't have a single thing on him. Not one. Size, strength, speed, agility - none of it. He didn't beat Kelce in a single one of those areas physically. Gronk is stronger - Kelce beats him in every other metric.

Gates didn't have anywhere near the fluidity Kelce has. Straight line speed? He may have had Kelce for a couple of years there, I'll give you that. But he didn't use his speed as well as Kelce does and frankly Kelce's ability to retain speed while moving gave him a better athletic profile than Gates. It made him far more dangerous.

You say we're overselling Kelce's athleticism. I say you're underselling the rest of these guy's savvy and work ethic. Trait for trait, I don't see how you can say Kelce isn't the equal of the rest of these guys.