Salary Cap could exceed $220 million

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I'd definitely focus more on defense. With weak tackles, an average running game and average WRs, the offense is still the best the league. Even with all the talent in the world on the offensive side of the ball, a drive (or game) can still be wrecked by a penalty or fumble. The margin for error is too small against good teams and there's too much pressure on the offense to produce on every possession.

We need a DL that is consistently disruptive and an upgrade for Thornhill.

Buffalo and Cincinnati are great examples of why I don’t love this. There are offenses that are just really really good and they’re going to get theirs against us. We can beat these teams in shootouts. I don’t love having to beat these guys with a balance of defense and an offense that does just enough.

Over the past few years what has lost it for us in the playoffs? Last year it was our offense. The year before our offensive line. Hell the defense bailed our offense out in the Super Bowl until we got it together in the 4th.

Our offense has become very efficient. But we know we are capable of so much more than that. We still have games like cincy and Tennessee and vs the rams where we are really really grinding for yards. Our production really downplays that these games were really difficult for our offense. Our WRs don’t match up well against really physical teams. And some teams have been able to figure out kelce just enough to make it real difficult for everyone else. Hell, we don’t necessarily have this version of kelce for too too long. We know mahomes can power his way through these games but he shouldn’t have to. We know he can flat out dominate if you surround him with talent.

I think veach has shown he can still build a solid defense without a whole lot of resources. It does feel like he needs a lot of investment to make them truly great. Meanwhile, do you think any defense is stopping us if we add a mclaurin or metcalf?

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Buffalo and Cincinnati are great examples of why I don’t love this. There are offenses that are just really really good and they’re going to get theirs against us. We can beat these teams in shootouts. I don’t love having to beat these guys with a balance of defense and an offense that does just enough.

Over the past few years what has lost it for us in the playoffs? Last year it was our offense. The year before our offensive line. Hell the defense bailed our offense out in the Super Bowl until we got it together in the 4th.

Our offense has become very efficient. But we know we are capable of so much more than that. We still have games like cincy and Tennessee and vs the rams where we are really really grinding for yards. Our production really downplays that these games were really difficult for our offense. Our WRs don’t match up well against really physical teams. And some teams have been able to figure out kelce just enough to make it real difficult for everyone else. Hell, we don’t necessarily have this version of kelce for too too long. We know mahomes can power his way through these games but he shouldn’t have to. We know he can flat out dominate if you surround him with talent.

I think veach has shown he can still build a solid defense without a whole lot of resources. It does feel like he needs a lot of investment to make them truly great. Meanwhile, do you think any defense is stopping us if we add a mclaurin or metcalf?

As much as I'd love to see Veach going up top for a guy like Jalin Hyatt to make this offense more explosive, you have to fix what ails you.

Right now, what ails KC is terrible tackle play.

It's difficult to get a starting caliber LT outside of the top 15. If you're going to get one, you have to make a serious investment. If you're not making that investment, you usually have an aging tackle and can find a nice project guy in the 3rd to 4th to develop.

League-wide, here's the distribution for Left and Right Tackles (AVE = average pick in that round, % = Count in that round out of 32 teams) using initial starters (i.e. before injuries happened):

RND	LT	AVE	%	RT	AVE	%
1	18	13	56%	11	16	34%
2	3	44	9%	5	51	16%
3	4	81	13%	7	78	22%
4	2	119	6%	1	140	3%
5	1	168	3%	1	158	3%
6	0	0	0%	0	0	0%
7	3	241	9%	1	248	3%
CFA	1	0	3%	6	0	19%

If you swap Trevor Penning (R1-19) for James Hurst (CFA), that puts the league at 60% of LTs coming from Rnd 1.

Obviously, it's not necessary to take a tackle in round 1 but your best bet to get a starter is in that round on either side. At a minimum, it's best to take either by the end of Day 2 (78% of LTs taken by then and 72% of RTs).

I can't fathom Veach targeting an offensive playmaker right now when he not only needs to fix the atrocious tackle situation but also needs to fix the defensive line. Fixing the O-line will open this offense up as much as another playmaker will and Pat won't be running for his life and have injury risk.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by kccrow

As much as I'd love to see Veach going up top for a guy like Jalin Hyatt to make this offense more explosive, you have to fix what ails you.

Right now, what ails KC is terrible tackle play.

It's difficult to get a starting caliber LT outside of the top 15. If you're going to get one, you have to make a serious investment. If you're not making that investment, you usually have an aging tackle and can find a nice project guy in the 3rd to 4th to develop.

League-wide, here's the distribution for Left and Right Tackles (AVE = average pick in that round, % = Count in that round out of 32 teams) using initial starters (i.e. before injuries happened):

RND	LT	AVE	%	RT	AVE	%
1	18	13	56%	11	16	34%
2	3	44	9%	5	51	16%
3	4	81	13%	7	78	22%
4	2	119	6%	1	140	3%
5	1	168	3%	1	158	3%
6	0	0	0%	0	0	0%
7	3	241	9%	1	248	3%
CFA	1	0	3%	6	0	19%

If you swap Trevor Penning (R1-19) for James Hurst (CFA), that puts the league at 60% of LTs coming from Rnd 1.

Obviously, it's not necessary to take a tackle in round 1 but your best bet to get a starter is in that round on either side. At a minimum, it's best to take either by the end of Day 2 (78% of LTs taken by then and 72% of RTs).

I can't fathom Veach targeting an offensive playmaker right now when he not only needs to fix the atrocious tackle situation but also needs to fix the defensive line. Fixing the O-line will open this offense up as much as another playmaker will and Pat won't be running for his life and have injury risk.

You can upgrade terrible to average. I agree we can’t just leave a hole but you don’t have to put top 10 money into it either. Based on what we saw from veach his two places he wanted a big swing was wr and DE.

I think mahomes and Reid’s greatness is overrating our WRs. We shouldn’t just expect our pass offense to be efficient and for mahomes to carry all the water. We have the coach and qb to be elite. And while mahomes has been magical, games like Tennessee, cincy and buffalo were challenging for us offensively. We struggle with defenses who play very physical against our WRs. Several of our WRs disappear in stretches.

The reality is our defense can only do so much against powerhouse offenses line Cincinnati and buffalo. And in each of our biggest games (cincy 2x, and buffalo) it wasn’t the blocking or defense that let us down. It’s because we didn’t score on our last possessions. I just think you need to build the best possible passing game, and then you work hard to try to make the rest of the team as good as possible. I just don’t see a stud tackle moving that needle nearly as much as a stud WR

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You can upgrade terrible to average. I agree we can’t just leave a hole but you don’t have to put top 10 money into it either. Based on what we saw from veach his two places he wanted a big swing was wr and DE.

I think mahomes and Reid’s greatness is overrating our WRs. We shouldn’t just expect our pass offense to be efficient and for mahomes to carry all the water. We have the coach and qb to be elite. And while mahomes has been magical, games like Tennessee, cincy and buffalo were challenging for us offensively. We struggle with defenses who play very physical against our WRs. Several of our WRs disappear in stretches.

The reality is our defense can only do so much against powerhouse offenses line Cincinnati and buffalo. And in each of our biggest games (cincy 2x, and buffalo) it wasn’t the blocking or defense that let us down. It’s because we didn’t score on our last possessions. I just think you need to build the best possible passing game, and then you work hard to try to make the rest of the team as good as possible. I just don’t see a stud tackle moving that needle nearly as much as a stud WR

I 100% disagree and especially against Cincy. The Bengals have routinely gotten a lot of pressure on Mahomes and they've done it quite easily in big moments. I think your view of the effectiveness of our WRs is off the mark. The WRs get open. They got open in the AFC title game last year and they have gotten open in games this year. Mahomes just doesn't have the time to go through proper read progressions because of the immediate pressure on such a high volume of plays.

The other thing about it is that Mahomes, for as good as he can be, is behind the mark on just taking what the defense gives him. Too often he's looking for select weapons, and especially Kelce, instead of just finding the open man. It was terrible in the AFC title game in the second half and it's been terrible in some big moments in tough games this year again. He has to start taking what's there and trusting other guys to make the play. If he doesn't do that, you can give him three #1 caliber WRs in there and it won't matter. He has improved some this year, but he's still going with hot reads when he shouldn't too often.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Buffalo and Cincinnati are great examples of why I don’t love this. There are offenses that are just really really good and they’re going to get theirs against us. We can beat these teams in shootouts. I don’t love having to beat these guys with a balance of defense and an offense that does just enough.

Over the past few years what has lost it for us in the playoffs? Last year it was our offense. The year before our offensive line. Hell the defense bailed our offense out in the Super Bowl until we got it together in the 4th.

Our offense has become very efficient. But we know we are capable of so much more than that. We still have games like cincy and Tennessee and vs the rams where we are really really grinding for yards. Our production really downplays that these games were really difficult for our offense. Our WRs don’t match up well against really physical teams. And some teams have been able to figure out kelce just enough to make it real difficult for everyone else. Hell, we don’t necessarily have this version of kelce for too too long. We know mahomes can power his way through these games but he shouldn’t have to. We know he can flat out dominate if you surround him with talent.

I think veach has shown he can still build a solid defense without a whole lot of resources. It does feel like he needs a lot of investment to make them truly great. Meanwhile, do you think any defense is stopping us if we add a mclaurin or metcalf?

For '23 and 24'? No, I don't think you can count on beating Cincinnati in a shoot-out.

I don't think we can assume we can match Chase, Boyd, and Higgins no matter how much we spend.

And Burrow is good enough to go toe to toe with Mahomes. IF he has time to throw.

I think THAT is the key. But after '24, they'll be paying Burrow, and will have to make decisions on Chase, Boyd, and Higgins, and the institutional advantage they currently enjoy will level out. So if I'm Veach, I'm looking to fix the OT situation, and I'm investing in the defensive line.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

For '23 and 24'? No, I don't think you can count on beating Cincinnati in a shoot-out.

I don't think we can assume we can match Chase, Boyd, and Higgins no matter how much we spend.

And Burrow is good enough to go toe to toe with Mahomes. IF he has time to throw.

I think THAT is the key. But after '24, they'll be paying Burrow, and will have to make decisions on Chase, Boyd, and Higgins, and the institutional advantage they currently enjoy will level out. So if I'm Veach, I'm looking to fix the OT situation, and I'm investing in the defensive line.

they’re going to be tough to stop no matter what. Buffalo tried this by loading up their defense to stop us. So far it hasn’t worked. Mahomes thrashing defenses is inevitable. I think the same goes for burrow and allen. I can’t imagine the frustration for buffalo with all they’ve invested in their defense for us to have our way with them last year. The difference between this year and last year isn’t our defense. It’s our offense. As much as mahomes has gotten better we still have stretches where receivers flat out aren’t getting open.

What bothers me more about the buffalo and cincy losses this year isn’t that our defense didn’t do enough. It’s that our offense had stretches where they look stuck. You expect a defense to have challenges vs burrow no matter what. But we know our offense is capable of being unstoppable. that is every bit receivers getting open as much as it is OL issues. Too many coverage pressures. We need a WR1. you know what also helps pass pro? A WR who can quickly beat press. Who can bail his qb out on jump balls. Who can quickly find spots in the middle. Because we are having issues with very physical secondaries.

I agree we need to upgrade our tackles for sure. But do we have to pay top dollar to do it? Or at the expense of the right kind of WR1. That’s where I don’t agree. It seems people are content to have a balanced team with an extremely efficient offense. I want ti go back to stomping on peoples throats with our passing game.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

they’re going to be tough to stop no matter what. Buffalo tried this by loading up their defense to stop us. So far it hasn’t worked. Mahomes thrashing defenses is inevitable. I think the same goes for burrow and allen. I can’t imagine the frustration for buffalo with all they’ve invested in their defense for us to have our way with them last year. The difference between this year and last year isn’t our defense. It’s our offense. As much as mahomes has gotten better we still have stretches where receivers flat out aren’t getting open.

What bothers me more about the buffalo and cincy losses this year isn’t that our defense didn’t do enough. It’s that our offense had stretches where they look stuck. You expect a defense to have challenges vs burrow no matter what. But we know our offense is capable of being unstoppable. that is every bit receivers getting open as much as it is OL issues. Too many coverage pressures. We need a WR1. you know what also helps pass pro? A WR who can quickly beat press. Who can bail his qb out on jump balls. Who can quickly find spots in the middle. Because we are having issues with very physical secondaries.

I agree we need to upgrade our tackles for sure. But do we have to pay top dollar to do it? Or at the expense of the right kind of WR1. That’s where I don’t agree. It seems people are content to have a balanced team with an extremely efficient offense. I want ti go back to stomping on peoples throats with our passing game.

It's not a WR problem. It's a tackle problem. We don't need a #1 WR, they need the billion dollar QB to not get antsy in the pocket and the T"s to not get blown by.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

It's not a WR problem. It's a tackle problem. We don't need a #1 WR, they need the billion dollar QB to not get antsy in the pocket and the T"s to not get blown by.

This.

Both lines need addressed before anything else.