Brett Veach hopes Chris Jones can play next week; increased talks last 2 days

[RunKC]

For the mega thread hating crew

#Chiefs GM Brett Veach says he's hopeful that DT Chris Jones will play in their season opener vs. the Lions, which is just eight days away.

Veach mentioned that there has been increased communication on an extension over the past two days. pic.twitter.com/MpLGt0mYhz

— Ari Meirov (@MySportsUpdate) August 30, 2023

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Guys you seriously have to stop thinking of contracts as something the player has to HONOR. It's not an oath to play football. The owners don't fully guarantee the FEE so why do you expect the player to guarantee the SERVICE?

There are loads of reasons to want Chris Jones traded - some of us have been saying it since last season. There are myriad ways he is dumb and continues to make dumb, limited thinking decisions based on myopic... I'll call it pride not greed.

But CJ holding out is nothing to be upset about. It's his right to not work and not get paid. He's being penalized for his actions. It's dumb not unethical.

On one hand, I understand what you're saying, but **** that.

He's holding out hoping that it will cost the Chiefs enough games to give into his demands. He's essentially holding the team hostage in the middle of the golden era of Chiefs football, and while I might not use the word "unethical", he can absolutely **** off for that.

And the fact that it's a dumb business move only makes it worse.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

The non-guaranteed contracts are part of a system that has been collectively bargained between the owners and the NFLPA.

If Chris Jones doesn't like the system, then he should take it up with his union.

Otherwise, under the current rules... agreed to by his union... he is in breach of his current employment contract.

non guarantees go both ways. Every dead cap number represents a team "in breach of contract." Which is to say... no it isn't. That's not breach of contract.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by staylor26

On one hand, I understand what you're saying, but **** that.

He's holding out hoping that it will cost the Chiefs enough games to give into his demands. He's essentially holding the team hostage in the middle of the golden era of Chiefs football, and while I might not use the word "unethical", he can absolutely **** off for that.

And the fact that it's a dumb business move only makes it worse.

100% but holding out because he has a contract "and should honor that" is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.

Is it dumb? yes.

Is he super dumb for pretending like this isn't letting his teammates down? yes.

is he super ****ing dumb for comparing his situation to a regular person "asking for a raise?" obviously

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

100% but holding out because he has a contract "and should honor that" is a gross misrepresentation of the situation.

Fair enough.

[stanleychief]

Originally Posted by arrowheadnation

I think the fact that his agents are physically in town is a huge positive. In-person negotiating is more effective than doing it over a phone. Go to the Chiefs offices, lock them and Veach in a room, and get it done.

Maybe bring in Carl to help out with the negotiations, John Tait style.

[saphojunkie]

Maybe it's just me, but I think this was always who he was. I just remember him on... I think Cowherd... being asked about his (last) new contract negotiations, and him saying "What do I have to do?!"

It struck a really bad chord for me then, and I've never trusted him since. Then when he said "I don't know how you sign for $500M and 'leave money on the table.'" in response to Mahomes saying he left $ for CJ to sign an extension...

Man... I just always felt like CJ was butt hurt about his last negotiation and he was going to do everything he could to get back the money he thought he was owed last go around.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

non guarantees go both ways. Every dead cap number represents a team "in breach of contract." Which is to say... no it isn't. That's not breach of contract.

Taking a salary cap hit is not a "breach of contract"... non-guaranteed contracts and their related salary cap ramifications are a legal part of the current system, as defined by the CBA.

What IS a breach of contract is a player not showing up to mandatory OTA practices, mandatory training camp practices, preseason games, regular season practices, regular season games, etc.

See the fact that Chris Jones could be fined up to $10 million if he holds out through Week 8.

[jettio]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

The non-guaranteed contracts are part of a system that has been collectively bargained between the owners and the NFLPA.

If Chris Jones doesn't like the system, then he should take it up with his union.

Otherwise, under the current rules... agreed to by his union... he is in breach of his current employment contract.

Bullshit,

The CBA has the fines and potential withheld game checks that we all know more about because of this holdout.

Jones contract with Chiefs is subject to the CBA between the NFLPA and the teams.

If he does not report, he is subject to the fines and conditions stated in CBA for not reporting. Chiefs can't sue him for breach of his employment contract.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

Taking a salary cap hit is not a "breach of contract"... non-guaranteed contracts and their related salary cap ramifications are a legal part of the current system, as defined by the CBA.

What IS a breach of contract is a player not showing up to mandatory OTA practices, mandatory training camp practices, preseason games, regular season practices, regular season games, etc.

See the fact that Chris Jones could be fined up to $10 million if he holds out through Week 8.

You're conflating the fines for missing camp with not receiving game checks, which are fees for services rendered. As he is not rendering those services, he is not being paid.

[saphojunkie]

Once again, I am 100% on the "ship Chris Jones out" bandwagon, and have been driving it since 2022.

He thinks he is a vital (in the true meaning of the word) part of the team's success. He is not. He is massively instrumental in the team's success, and not all 32 teams can win without their best defensive player, but KC is one of them.

I'm simply saying that being anti-worker and pro-employer in this situation doesn't make the worker's actions unethical. They just piss you off because you - like the rest of us - think the Chiefs' best chance at a Lombardi trophy this year is with a healthy and participating Chris Jones.

Chris Jones has misunderstood that to mean that he has a supreme leverage position, which is not true.

Patrick Mahomes II could make this team change their uniform colors if he wanted to. Chris Jones can hold out, cost himself money, alienate the fan base and likely some teammates, and risk the defense getting along without him.

It's stupid.

[FloridaMan88]

Originally Posted by jettio

Bullshit,

The CBA has the fines and potential withheld game checks that we all know more about because of this holdout.

Jones contract with Chiefs is subject to the CBA between the NFLPA and the teams.

If he does not report, he is subject to the fines and conditions stated in CBA for not reporting. Chiefs can't sue him for breach of his employment contract.

He's subject to fines and other punitive measures because he's under contract and is in breach of this contract.

The fact that one of the punitive measures doesn't include the ability for the Chiefs to sue him, doesn't mean he's not in breach of his contract.

[alpha_omega]

Originally Posted by WhawhaWhat

Chris Jones with the families here at @rmhckc. pic.twitter.com/MGEd9fe18r

— Nate Taylor (@ByNateTaylor) September 6, 2023

I can't hate on him for that.

[saphojunkie]

Originally Posted by KCChiefsFan88

He's subject to fines and other punitive measures because he's under contract and is in breach of this contract.

The fact that one of the punitive measures doesn't include the ability for the Chiefs to sue him, doesn't mean he's not in breach of his contract.

We're you saying this when he missed mandatory minicamp?

[O.city]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Maybe it's just me, but I think this was always who he was. I just remember him on... I think Cowherd... being asked about his (last) new contract negotiations, and him saying "What do I have to do?!"

It struck a really bad chord for me then, and I've never trusted him since. Then when he said "I don't know how you sign for $500M and 'leave money on the table.'" in response to Mahomes saying he left $ for CJ to sign an extension...

Man... I just always felt like CJ was butt hurt about his last negotiation and he was going to do everything he could to get back the money he thought he was owed last go around.

I just don't really care about what guys do financially, don't hold it against them etc.

Just realize it can end up costing them actually being on my team.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by saphojunkie

Once again, I am 100% on the "ship Chris Jones out" bandwagon, and have been driving it since 2022.

He thinks he is a vital (in the true meaning of the word) part of the team's success. He is not. He is massively instrumental in the team's success, and not all 32 teams can win without their best defensive player, but KC is one of them.

I'm simply saying that being anti-worker and pro-employer in this situation doesn't make the worker's actions unethical. They just piss you off because you - like the rest of us - think the Chiefs' best chance at a Lombardi trophy this year is with a healthy and participating Chris Jones.

Chris Jones has misunderstood that to mean that he has a supreme leverage position, which is not true.

Patrick Mahomes II could make this team change their uniform colors if he wanted to. Chris Jones can hold out, cost himself money, alienate the fan base and likely some teammates, and risk the defense getting along without him.

It's stupid.

We're about to find out how vital he is to winning.

If needing Jones healthy gives them the best chance to win a SB, i'd say he's pretty vital.