Illegal Immigration: What should we do?

[Donger]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

The solution is not as complicated as it seems...

one of the main reasons for the illegal immigration is it's so difficult and expensive for anyone to migrate here legally. The process of obtaining a green card needs to be streamlined and expedited. That is why you have nearly half of all 'illegal aliens' here with papers like expired travel or student visas. These people HAVE documents and if they've been in the country for than two years past the expiration of their visa they should be granted access to making their standing legal. It should not be difficult if they have learned the language, are working, and have fully integrated into American life. If this ONE STEP, is done then it will have a greater impact on stopping the flow of illegal immigration than would a fence.

Much of the cause of illegal immigration is the paperwork, time, and expense to do it legally. Thus, if the process were simplified this issue would be easier to handle because the alternative would not seem so inviting...

What tripe. Last time I checked, it was right around $190 to apply and file for residency, and the forms are readily available.

* Edit - I was wrong. It's $330 to file form N-400, Application for Naturalization.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by Donger

What tripe. Last time I checked, it was right around $190 to apply and file for residency, and the forms are readily available.

* Edit - I was wrong. It's $330 to file form N-400, Application for Naturalization.

Meanwhile, for around $1000, you can secure an illegal path across the border, and for another $500 you gan get a transport to the midwest in a vehicle that's unlikely to be stopped in the INS heavy southwest states.

It has nothing to do with expense.

It does have to do with ignorance. You're talking about people coming from villages with only one phone for the entire village. People that still believe in myths and obscure herbal remedies. All it takes is Uncle Juan from the US to tell them that it's too hard to come in legally, and it's the gospel.

Too many people believe it really is easier to come in illegally, and in many ways it is. They can get here in a week illegally by borrowing money from someone already here.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by jspchief

Meanwhile, for around $1000, you can secure an illegal path across the border, and for another $500 you gan get a transport to the midwest in a vehicle that's unlikely to be stopped in the INS heavy southwest states.

It has nothing to do with expense.

It does have to do with ignorance. You're talking about people coming from villages with only one phone for the entire village. People that still believe in myths and obscure herbal remedies. All it takes is Uncle Juan from the US to tell them that it's too hard to come in legally, and it's the gospel.

Too many people believe it really is easier to come in illegally, and in many ways it is. They can get here in a week illegally by borrowing money from someone already here.

Precisely. It's easier to break the law than to follow it.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by Donger

Precisely. It's easier to break the law than to follow it.

And then you get to work tax free when you get here.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by jspchief

And then you get to work tax free when you get here.

My parents were so stupid. I'd be making a fucking killing right now if I didn't have to pay taxes.

[Boozer]

Originally Posted by Donger

What tripe. Last time I checked, it was right around $190 to apply and file for residency, and the forms are readily available.

* Edit - I was wrong. It's $330 to file form N-400, Application for Naturalization.

Would someone who wants to get into the country file an N-400? I'm not up on immigration law, but I'm guessing most illegal workers would probably try to be legally admitted on a non-immigrant basis, not on a naturalization track.

Also, what's the probability that a manual laborer in Mexico would be granted a visa for permanent residence? I don't think it's the cost that's keeping them out (many pay very high amounts to be smuggled in), it's that their applications would either be extremely delayed or denied.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by Boozer

Would someone who wants to get into the country file an N-400? I'm not up on immigration law, but I'm guessing most illegal workers would probably try to be legally admitted on a non-immigrant basis, not on a naturalization track.

Also, what's the probability that a manual laborer in Mexico would be granted a visa for permanent residence? I don't think it's the cost that's keeping them out (many pay very high amounts to be smuggled in), it's that their applications would either be extremely delayed or denied.

It's definately a slow process, and has become exponentially slower since 9/11.

I had a friend that came here illegally. He ended up having a daughter, and applied for naturalization. He was told the process would take about two years, and that he was not allowed to leave the country while in process or his right to naturalization would be permantly revoked. In other words, he was forced to stay in the US illegally until he was processed. About a year into it, the 9/11 attacks happened. He was then told that the delay would be closer to 5 years. 5 years that he is forced to stay here illegally, while waiting to become legal.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by jspchief

It's definately a slow process, and has become exponentially slower since 9/11.

I had a friend that came here illegally. He ended up having a daughter, and applied for naturalization. He was told the process would take about two years, and that he was not allowed to leave the country while in process or his right to naturalization would be permantly revoked. In other words, he was forced to stay in the US illegally until he was processed. About a year into it, the 9/11 attacks happened. He was then told that the delay would be closer to 5 years. 5 years that he is forced to stay here illegally, while waiting to become legal.

Yes. I case people don't know, ANY child born on US soil is immediately granted citizenship, even those born of illegals.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by Boozer

Would someone who wants to get into the country file an N-400? I'm not up on immigration law, but I'm guessing most illegal workers would probably try to be legally admitted on a non-immigrant basis, not on a naturalization track.

Also, what's the probability that a manual laborer in Mexico would be granted a visa for permanent residence? I don't think it's the cost that's keeping them out (many pay very high amounts to be smuggled in), it's that their applications would either be extremely delayed or denied.

When we did it, you had to apply for residency, get a green card and then after seven years of legal residency, you could apply for naturalization. I don't know if that has changed.

Back then, the numbers were limited per country of origin. We had to wait for two years to be granted residency.

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Donger

What tripe. Last time I checked, it was right around $190 to apply and file for residency, and the forms are readily available.

* Edit - I was wrong. It's $330 to file form N-400, Application for Naturalization.

uh, you aren't including the attorney fees necessary to fight deportation once your 'illegal' status becomes known to the INS. If you turn yourself in as overstaying your visa, and therefore illegal, you'd better have yourself a good attorney by your side. If the INS decides to play hardball it could cost you thousands of dollars.

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

uh, you aren't including the attorney fees necessary to fight deportation once your 'illegal' status becomes known to the INS. If you turn yourself in as overstaying your visa, and therefore illegal, you'd better have yourself a good attorney by your side. If the INS decides to play hardball it could cost you thousands of dollars.

I don't know about California, but in the midwest that simply isn't true. They don't play hardball, and they rarely if ever deport anyone that is making the effort to regain legal status.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

uh, you aren't including the attorney fees necessary to fight deportation once your 'illegal' status becomes known to the INS. If you turn yourself in as overstaying your visa, and therefore illegal, you'd better have yourself a good attorney by your side. If the INS decides to play hardball it could cost you thousands of dollars.

They wouldn't need attorney fees to fight deportation if they hadn't immigrated illegally, now would they?

[memyselfI]

Originally Posted by Donger

They wouldn't need attorney fees to fight deportation if they hadn't immigrated illegally, now would they?

Uh, perhaps you missed the part where I said that nearly HALF of the 'illegal immigrants' WERE HERE LEGALLY at least initially...

the point is if it were possible and uncomplicated for THEM to make themselves legal before they fell into illegal status then you would eliminate at least half of the problem. In addition, these people would have legal status and thus would qualify for jobs and paying taxes and would not ever be a drain on the system.

[Donger]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Uh, perhaps you missed the part where I said that nearly HALF of the 'illegal immigrants' WERE HERE LEGALLY at least initially...

the point is if it were possible and uncomplicated for THEM to make themselves legal before they fell into illegal status then you would eliminate at least half of the problem. In addition, these people would have legal status and thus would qualify for jobs and paying taxes and would not ever be a drain on the system.

No, I didn't miss it. It's just irrelevant. If you overstay your visa, you're illegal and are responsible for any fees that you might incur. I know as a liberal you're inclined to forgive laziness and stupidity, but let's reward it, shall we?

[jspchief]

Originally Posted by memyselfI

Uh, perhaps you missed the part where I said that nearly HALF of the 'illegal immigrants' WERE HERE LEGALLY at least initially...

I don't believe that. Not even close to half.

I'm not normally the type to demand links, but in this case I have to call BS unless you have something that supports the statement. And I seriously doubt something like that exists.

There are estimated millions that come to this country illegally each year. For your "half" stayement to be true, that would mean that we allow millions of non-citizens into this country each year too, and that an equal number of them actually stay illegally. I don't think so.