Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers - Page 2

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day

Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
Young Adults Feel So Entitled

July 5, 2007; Page B5

Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself.

Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things?

Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged:

"You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice."

Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting."

Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special.

By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."

"They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided.

"Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders.

"Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions.

In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"

He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?"

Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3

**HemiEd** · 07-09-2007, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Snopes is your friend:

http://www.snopes.com/radiotv/tv/mrrogers.asp

Thanks for the clarification.
Well that is kind of a downer! I guess the part about Captain Kangaroo and Lee Marvin is false too?
But I want to believe this stuff, darnit!

Simplex3 · 07-09-2007, 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Heh. Me too.

Except there are times when I think I'm way too nice to my kids. Hopefully, I'm finding a reasonable middle ground. All I know is they hear plenty about the importance of goals, hardwork, and not expecting things to be handed to them.....about EARNING their self-esteem. OTOH, I don't want to be a nagging Nazi about it. So it's a balancing act to be sure.

My wife and I give them plenty of praise. AFTER they earn it. We don't gratuitously tell our kids they're smart, or that they're doing well if they aren't. On the other hand we let them know that we will love them even if they don't succeed.

Jenson71 · 07-09-2007, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

Wow. That's really scientific.

Brock · 07-09-2007, 01:37 PM

What a steaming load. Mr. Rogers was great.

You want to blame someone for raising a ****ed up generation, start with the baby boomers. They're the ones who are raising their grandchildren too.

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

Wow. That's really scientific.

There has been a lot of research suggesting the ill-effects of the "self-esteem" overload bullcrap that was cranked out in the 60s and 70s.

To me, it seems this guy is expressing it in a way that reduces it to an anecdote that makes a lot of sense to some of us who've lived through it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock

What a steaming load. Mr. Rogers was great.

You want to blame someone for raising a ****ed up generation, start with the baby boomers. They're the ones who are raising their grandchildren too.

I'm not absolving the boomers entirely.....but Spock and Rogers seemed to have an almost "eerie" alliance with the hippies.

And, consider....baby boomers in many cases were raising their grandkids because their drugcrazed idiot hippy kids couldn't, or wouldn't.

Jenson71 · 07-09-2007, 02:07 PM

If you watch Mr. Rogers, you get to see how pudding is made. Then you go to make believe world. Unbelievable how Mr. Rogers can be blamed for having some kid wanting his B+ to go to an A-.

It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood
A beautiful day for a neighbor
Would you be mine
Could you be mine

It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood
A neighborly day for a beauty
Would you be mine
Could you be mine

I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you
I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you

So, let's make the most of this beautiful day
Since we're together we might as well say
Would you be mine, could you be mine
Won't you be my neighbor
Won't you please, won't you please
Please won't you be my neighbor

Oh look how he ruined America. Thank God he wasn't known as Fred! Kotter, did you let your kids watch the show?

Brock · 07-09-2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

And, consider....baby boomers in many cases were raising their grandkids because their drugcrazed idiot hippy kids couldn't, or wouldn't.

Uh, no. The baby boomers were the original drug crazed filthy hippies. It's not surprising their kids abdicated, they learned it firsthand.

**Baby Lee** · 07-09-2007, 02:13 PM

I watched Mr. Rogers religiously up until my parents gave away the TV when I entered grade school.
I loved the show but there isn't a time I can recall that I didn't think he was a nerd.
Mostly I enjoyed the pleasant tone, and the trips to see how things were made.
Never took a mindset away from the show, outside of 'it's cool to see how things are made' and 'nerds can be pleasant people.'

BucEyedPea · 07-09-2007, 02:15 PM

My kid NEVER watched it!
She was raised on a purple Dinosaur and the Big Comfy Couch!
Since she got a Presidential Academic Award at the end of this school year the programming she had worked apparently! Barney rokks!

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenson71

If you watch Mr. Rogers, you get to see how pudding is made. Then you go to make believe world. Unbelievable how Mr. Rogers can be blamed for having some kid wanting his B+ to go to an A-...

Oh look how he ruined America. Thank God he wasn't known as Fred! Kotter, did you let your kids watch the show?

Of course he didn't "ruin" America....

However, he and those like him who went off the "self-esteem" deep-end....who argued "I'm alright, you are alright"---even when they weren't alright, and those who claim self-esteem as a some sancrosanct BIRTHRIGHT....rather than something to be earned through hard work and accomplishment, were pushing an agenda. And it was an agenda that has proven, ultimately, to be counterproductive, IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baby Lee

I watched Mr. Rogers religiously up until my parents gave away the TV when I entered grade school.
I loved the show but there isn't a time I can recall that I didn't think he was a nerd.
Mostly I enjoyed the pleasant tone, and the trips to see how things were made.
Never took a mindset away from the show, outside of 'it's cool to see how things are made' and 'nerds can be pleasant people.'

I think from a kid's perspective, you are right. I really wonder how many parents though, adopted that always-pleasant, never-criticize (even constructively,) Polly-Anna-ish rose colored glass view of parenting....to the extent they gave their kids an unrealistic view of life, work, and human nature?

Eric · 07-09-2007, 02:19 PM

It would be nice if there was an ASSKICKING reality show on tv for spoiled rich disrespectful punks who get the living sh** kicked out of them.

But that would be illegal. Would be incredible ratings!

BucEyedPea · 07-09-2007, 02:19 PM

That's why " I love you. You love me. We're a happy f-a-m-i-l-y!" works better.

You can still love someone even if they're not alright.

bkkcoh · 07-09-2007, 02:21 PM

Not to mention the Sweet Sixteen show on MTV. Spoiled rich biotches.....

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

It would be nice if there was an ASSKICKING reality show on tv for spoiled rich disrespectful punks who get the living sh** kicked out of them.

But that would be illegal. Would be incredible ratings!

Now, THAT'S a reality show I'd even watch.

**HemiEd** · 07-09-2007, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Of course he didn't "ruin" America....

However, he and those like him who went off the "self-esteem" deep-end....who argued "I'm alright, you are alright"---even when they weren't alright, and those who claimself-esteem as a some sancrosanct BIRTHRIGHT....rather than something to be earned through hard work and accomplishment, were pushing an agenda. And it was an agenda that has proven, ultimately, to be counterproductive, IMO.

I think from a kid's perspective, you are right. I really wonder how many parents though, adopted that always-pleasant, never-criticize (even constructively,) Polly-Anna-ish rose colored glass view of parenting....to the extent they gave their kids an unrealistic view of life, work, and human nature?

Do you put a helmet and knee pads on your kids to ride a bike?

07-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3274285	Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why Young Adults Feel So Entitled July 5, 2007; Page B5 Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's. "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers." Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself. Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things? Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged: "You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice." Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting." Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special. By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it." "They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided. "Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders. "Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions. In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?" He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?" Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3
Posts: 46,901

07-09-2007, 01:37 PM	#19
Brock Say hello to my little friend Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Larryville Casino cash: $9598422	What a steaming load. Mr. Rogers was great. You want to blame someone for raising a ****ed up generation, start with the baby boomers. They're the ones who are raising their grandchildren too.
Posts: 47,314

07-09-2007, 02:07 PM	#21
Jenson71 fides quaerens intellectum Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: United States Casino cash: $8330900	If you watch Mr. Rogers, you get to see how pudding is made. Then you go to make believe world. Unbelievable how Mr. Rogers can be blamed for having some kid wanting his B+ to go to an A-. It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood A beautiful day for a neighbor Would you be mine Could you be mine It's a neighborly day in this beauty wood A neighborly day for a beauty Would you be mine Could you be mine I've always wanted to have a neighbor just like you I've always wanted to live in a neighborhood with you So, let's make the most of this beautiful day Since we're together we might as well say Would you be mine, could you be mine Won't you be my neighbor Won't you please, won't you please Please won't you be my neighbor Oh look how he ruined America. Thank God he wasn't known as Fred! Kotter, did you let your kids watch the show?
Posts: 15,986

07-09-2007, 02:13 PM	#23
Baby Lee Supporter Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $8028275	I watched Mr. Rogers religiously up until my parents gave away the TV when I entered grade school. I loved the show but there isn't a time I can recall that I didn't think he was a nerd. Mostly I enjoyed the pleasant tone, and the trips to see how things were made. Never took a mindset away from the show, outside of 'it's cool to see how things are made' and 'nerds can be pleasant people.' __________________ We need the kind of courage that can withstand the subtle corruption of the cynics - E.W.
Posts: 95,642

07-09-2007, 02:15 PM	#24
BucEyedPea Here comes Peter Cottontail! Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: None of your business Casino cash: $-260037	My kid NEVER watched it! She was raised on a purple Dinosaur and the Big Comfy Couch! Since she got a Presidential Academic Award at the end of this school year the programming she had worked apparently! Barney rokks! __________________ Hello, Bearcat. Two Questions: Are you Malcor? Because call-out threads don't get moved to the Romper Room, but asking who Malcor is, as in being mult was moved there. Only a mod can do that. Why is DC getting over-moderated these days?
Posts: 168,472

07-09-2007, 02:19 PM	#26
Eric Banned Join Date: Dec 2006 Casino cash: $10004900	It would be nice if there was an ASSKICKING reality show on tv for spoiled rich disrespectful punks who get the living sh** kicked out of them. But that would be illegal. Would be incredible ratings!
Posts: 843

07-09-2007, 02:21 PM	#28
bkkcoh MVP Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Lewis Center, Ohio USA Casino cash: $9805595	Not to mention the Sweet Sixteen show on MTV. Spoiled rich biotches..... __________________ Brian K. Aspire to Inspire before you Expire
Posts: 5,506

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