Chiefs Posnanski:Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback - Page 6

**Tribal Warfare** · 09-07-2008, 10:44 PM

Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback

FOXBOROUGH, Mass. | Football is, at heart, a cold-blooded game. It’s easy to forget that because in the NFL, vicious hits are set to music and shoulders ripped from sockets are merely “separated” (leaving open a possibility for a reconciliation), and pain is reduced to those harmless-sounding words, ”questionable,” “doubtful” and “probable.”

In this heartless game, you need a quarterback who can get back up. That’s just a fact. It isn’t fair to blame the quarterback for suffering nasty injuries. It isn’t politically correct. But football isn’t a PC game. Sunday afternoon, the Chiefs were at the New England 5-yard line at the end with a chance to score a touchdown and tie the game, a chance to shock everyone, a chance to stick it in the faces of all those critics who called them the pits, a chance to laugh at all those people who bet the unbeatable New England Patriots to win by more than 15 points.

And the Chiefs’ quarterback of the future, the guy they’re building this whole thing around, the man who needed to be on the field at that key moment — Brodie Croyle — was on the sideline because of a shoulder injury.

In the end, nobody outside Kansas City cared, of course. The Patriots held on, beat the Chiefs 17-10, and the Chiefs showed a few positive signs, the Patriots showed a few cracks, but the only story on anyone’s mind Sunday was that the Patriots’ (and America’s) quarterback Tom Brady hurt his knee.

Some thought it happened on a dirty play by Chiefs safety Bernard Pollard, some thought it was just bad luck (that was the way I saw it), some suspected Brady would be out for the year, some thought he would be back next week, some figured the Patriots would collapse without him, some thought they would be just fine, back and forth, on and on, forever.

But, to be ruthless about it — football is a ruthless game — that’s the Patriots’ problem. To steal Mel Brooks’ line about the difference between tragedy and comedy: Tragedy is your quarterback getting hurt. Comedy is the other guy’s quarterback getting hurt.

The Chiefs’ quarterback, Brodie Croyle, got hurt. Again. This was the third time in seven starts that Croyle got hurt. Three for seven makes for a lousy injury average.

Thing is, Croyle has spent a lifetime getting hurt on football fields. He blew out his knee in high school. He separated his shoulder and got two ribs busted his sophomore year in college, then blew out his other knee his junior year. Last year, in his first home start, he hurt his back against Oakland and missed the next game. He hurt his hand at Detroit trying to make a tackle and couldn’t finish the game.

In the third quarter on Sunday, New England linebacker Adalius Thomas sacked Brodie and drove his right shoulder hard into the turf. Croyle grabbed for his shoulder immediately. He walked gingerly to the sideline, with his right arm dangling on the side. He threw one pass to test the shoulder and quickly shook his head no. He was done. Backup Damon Huard went into the game, threw a touchdown pass, led the Chiefs to the shadow of overtime and, well, you know the rest.

Now the Chiefs have to face up to something very real: The chosen quarterback, Brodie Croyle, cannot stay healthy. It isn’t his fault — this isn’t a toughness question. Everyone says the guy is as tough as a Ford truck. But the harsh reality is that his body, for whatever reason, cannot stand up to the NFL pounding. And you can’t build a football team around a quarterback who cannot stay on the field.

“Maybe he’s just unlucky,” one teammate says.

There’s no maybe about it. Croyle has talent. He has a good arm, and he has a pretty quick release, and he has a presence. That’s what everyone with the Chiefs wants to talk about when discussing Croyle. His abilities. The way he handles the huddle. The throws he can make. That’s great. But those are not the things that get you through in this violent game.

No, what made Brett Favre great wasn’t his arm or his gunslinger attitude, it was that he was able to be there every single week, no matter what kind of pounding he took, no matter how ferociously he was hit, no matter how many times he got blindsided. The same goes for John Elway and Dan Marino and Peyton Manning and, up to Sunday, Tom Brady. The one thing every great quarterback shared is that they started games. And they finished them.

That takes more than toughness, and it takes more than heart. You also need luck, a body that will not break, a mind that can ignore the obvious dangers that are all around.

Here’s a name for you: Greg Cook. Have you heard of him? Bill Walsh, the man who coached Joe Montana, said Greg Cook could have been the greatest quarterback who ever lived. As you know, that did not happen. Cook played one year in the NFL, was chosen Rookie of the Year, but badly hurt his shoulder. He threw only three more passes for the rest of his career. That’s the harshness of the game.

And right now, it looks more and more that Brodie Croyle simply cannot take the NFL pounding. The Chiefs’ young team did show promise Sunday. The defense played a high-energy game, and Turk McBride was often unblockable. The offense looked more organized than the last couple of years, and if Devard Darling could run a little faster or Dwayne Bowe could have made a catch, the game would have gone to overtime.

But in the end, plainly, you need a quarterback you can count on to go anywhere in this league. The Chiefs said they would test Croyle’s shoulder today, see the seriousness of the injury.

“He’s so tough, I’ll bet he will be back sooner than anyone thinks,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez says.

Maybe. Nobody questions Croyle’s heart. It’s his shoulder … and knees … and back. In the end, those things matter just as much as the heart.

**alanm** · 09-08-2008, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I am not nearly that big lol, he's like 280.

And anyone that has played any level of football has landed on their shoulder it happens. It wasn't a huge hit, but then again Croyle got hurt in high school too.

Anyone that sees that Croyle play says "he got hurt on that?" like they are completely baffled by it.

It wasn't like he got blindsided by a coal train. It wasn't even that hard of a tackle. He really didn't even hit the ground that hard. At least hard enough to make you go OOOhh that had to hurt watching on TV. It looked like your run of the mill QB knockdown.

I saw him making one throw on the sideline and shaking his had saying no and I thought suck it up and get your ass back out there because you have a chance to win. He showed me right then he wasn't the QB of the present or future. I like the guy, been in his corner all along, but he showed me yesterday what everone was right saying he's fragile.
He showed me yesterday that he has a very low threshold for pain.
I blame some of that on Brodie and the Chiefs trainers for not making him bulk up about 20 - 25lbs.

Shag · 09-08-2008, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanm

It wasn't like he got blindsided by a coal train. It wasn't even that hard of a tackle. He really didn't even hit the ground that hard. At least hard enough to make you go OOOhh that had to hurt watching on TV. It looked like your run of the mill QB knockdown.

I saw him making one throw on the sideline and shaking his had saying no and I thought suck it up and get your ass back out there because you have a chance to win. He showed me right then he wasn't the QB of the present or future. I like the guy, been in his corner all along, but he showed me yesterday what everone was right saying he's fragile.
He showed me yesterday that he has a very low threshold for pain.
I blame some of that on Brodie and the Chiefs trainers for not making him bulk up about 20 - 25lbs.

If it truly was a separated shoulder, he's not going to "suck it up" and throw through that...

Ultra Peanut · 09-08-2008, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

This was the day of tough men, young Mr. Mecca.

BLOOOOOW JOOOOOOOB

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ultra Peanut

BLOOOOOW JOOOOOOOB

You are 23 years old.

Get a clue, son.

**alanm** · 09-08-2008, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

He was very, very tough. Last player to play boths ways for 60 minutes. Ray Neitzke was another ferocious man. Everyone feared Deacon Jones. The word "sack" was coined to describe Jones' relentless dropping of QBs in the backfield.

Our own Willie Lanier was so feared that his league-wide nickname was "Contact".

The list goes on and on, but look at the SI Cover story I posted. I am not aware of any other major sports publication putting a player on its cover with that title.

Speaking of tough QBs, who was the last QB to play without a face mask?
No, it wasn't george Blanda (another tough SOB).

I'd say essentially Joe Theisman. He only had a single bar. They weren't allowed anymore after he retired.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanm

I'd say essentially Joe Theisman. He only had a single bar. They weren't allowed anymore after he retired.

Very close. Theisman was the last QB to play with a single bar face mask (IIRC). Bobby Layne palyed with no facemask into the 1960s.

**alanm** · 09-08-2008, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

Very close. Theisman was the last QB to play with a single bar face mask (IIRC). Bobby Layne palyed with no facemask into the 1960s.

To be honest Layne probably didn't know or care if he had a helmet on or not half the time since he was either hung over or still plastered from the night before. And still had a hall of fame career.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanm

To be honest Layne probably didn't know or care if he had a helmet on or not half the time since he was either hung over or still plastered from the night before. And still had a hall of fame career.

Lenny the Cool was his back up. Enough said. Tough = tough.

TEX · 09-08-2008, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath58

Seriously, you're an idiot.

He's played with cracked ribs, a separated shoulder, and a bruised kidney.

What else does he have to do to prove his toughness?

Play with a compound fracture of his femur?

LOL! I agreed with you in that he's the "toughest" injury - prone QB in the league - and for that you call me names...You must have realized how stupid you sound.

**ChiTown** · 09-08-2008, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCJohnny

You are 23 years old.

Get a clue, son.

ehem, that she be ma'am.

KCJohnny · 09-08-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiTown

ehem, that she be ma'am.

Sorry. Pretty unclassy for a female to characterize a post the way she did.

**OnTheWarpath15** · 09-08-2008, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TEX

LOL! I agreed with you in that he's the "toughest" injury - prone QB in the league - and for that you call me names...You must have realized how stupid you sound.

Yeah, the rolling eyes smiley really shows in agreement...

jidar · 09-08-2008, 09:12 AM

This is not a big surprise.

The thing the PC types are dancing around is that Brodie is skinny. Seriously skinny. The kid is god damned rail thin, and if you met him on the street and he told you he was going to play in the NFL you'd say "Damn kid, better eat something."

He's 6'2 and 205lbs. I was talking to my co-workers this morning about it and we started trying to think of QBs who are as skinny as Brodie and it was pretty hard to do.
Here are some names we came up with:

P. Manning 6'5 230
T. Brady 6'4 225
J. Cutler 6'3 230
C. Palmer 6'5 230
T. Romo 6'2 224

In fact it went on like this for awhile before someone said:
D. Huard 6'3 218

That was funny, the Chiefs at this point have the two skinniest QBs anyone can think of.
Until someone said
M. Bulger 6'3 212

Okay Bulger is almost as skinny as Croyle, real close. But wait, isn't Bulger hurt all the damned time? Oh yeah.. he is.

Folks, the fact is, you can't play QB in the NFL if you're that god damned skinny. Now we gave the kid a few years to try to put on some weight and as far as I can tell he's not more than a lb or two heavier. If he isn't going to try to gain weight then I don't see any reason to keep trying him at QB

jidar · 09-08-2008, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanm

I blame some of that on Brodie and the Chiefs trainers for not making him bulk up about 20 - 25lbs.

Its hard as hell to add 25lbs of muscle but even 10lbs of muscle might have prevented that injury.

ChiefsCountry · 09-08-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'm willing to bet you and I could take that hit and get up.

I hurt my shoulder on something very similar and I was built just like Brodie is now in high school. And the guy who did it ended up starting on Mizzou's offensive line.

09-07-2008, 10:44 PM
Tribal Warfare Man of Culture Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Far Beyond Comprehension Casino cash: $-3067187	Posnanski:Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback Croyle is too fragile to be the Chiefs’ answer at quarterback FOXBOROUGH, Mass. \| Football is, at heart, a cold-blooded game. It’s easy to forget that because in the NFL, vicious hits are set to music and shoulders ripped from sockets are merely “separated” (leaving open a possibility for a reconciliation), and pain is reduced to those harmless-sounding words, ”questionable,” “doubtful” and “probable.” In this heartless game, you need a quarterback who can get back up. That’s just a fact. It isn’t fair to blame the quarterback for suffering nasty injuries. It isn’t politically correct. But football isn’t a PC game. Sunday afternoon, the Chiefs were at the New England 5-yard line at the end with a chance to score a touchdown and tie the game, a chance to shock everyone, a chance to stick it in the faces of all those critics who called them the pits, a chance to laugh at all those people who bet the unbeatable New England Patriots to win by more than 15 points. And the Chiefs’ quarterback of the future, the guy they’re building this whole thing around, the man who needed to be on the field at that key moment — Brodie Croyle — was on the sideline because of a shoulder injury. In the end, nobody outside Kansas City cared, of course. The Patriots held on, beat the Chiefs 17-10, and the Chiefs showed a few positive signs, the Patriots showed a few cracks, but the only story on anyone’s mind Sunday was that the Patriots’ (and America’s) quarterback Tom Brady hurt his knee. Some thought it happened on a dirty play by Chiefs safety Bernard Pollard, some thought it was just bad luck (that was the way I saw it), some suspected Brady would be out for the year, some thought he would be back next week, some figured the Patriots would collapse without him, some thought they would be just fine, back and forth, on and on, forever. But, to be ruthless about it — football is a ruthless game — that’s the Patriots’ problem. To steal Mel Brooks’ line about the difference between tragedy and comedy: Tragedy is your quarterback getting hurt. Comedy is the other guy’s quarterback getting hurt. The Chiefs’ quarterback, Brodie Croyle, got hurt. Again. This was the third time in seven starts that Croyle got hurt. Three for seven makes for a lousy injury average. Thing is, Croyle has spent a lifetime getting hurt on football fields. He blew out his knee in high school. He separated his shoulder and got two ribs busted his sophomore year in college, then blew out his other knee his junior year. Last year, in his first home start, he hurt his back against Oakland and missed the next game. He hurt his hand at Detroit trying to make a tackle and couldn’t finish the game. In the third quarter on Sunday, New England linebacker Adalius Thomas sacked Brodie and drove his right shoulder hard into the turf. Croyle grabbed for his shoulder immediately. He walked gingerly to the sideline, with his right arm dangling on the side. He threw one pass to test the shoulder and quickly shook his head no. He was done. Backup Damon Huard went into the game, threw a touchdown pass, led the Chiefs to the shadow of overtime and, well, you know the rest. Now the Chiefs have to face up to something very real: The chosen quarterback, Brodie Croyle, cannot stay healthy. It isn’t his fault — this isn’t a toughness question. Everyone says the guy is as tough as a Ford truck. But the harsh reality is that his body, for whatever reason, cannot stand up to the NFL pounding. And you can’t build a football team around a quarterback who cannot stay on the field. “Maybe he’s just unlucky,” one teammate says. There’s no maybe about it. Croyle has talent. He has a good arm, and he has a pretty quick release, and he has a presence. That’s what everyone with the Chiefs wants to talk about when discussing Croyle. His abilities. The way he handles the huddle. The throws he can make. That’s great. But those are not the things that get you through in this violent game. No, what made Brett Favre great wasn’t his arm or his gunslinger attitude, it was that he was able to be there every single week, no matter what kind of pounding he took, no matter how ferociously he was hit, no matter how many times he got blindsided. The same goes for John Elway and Dan Marino and Peyton Manning and, up to Sunday, Tom Brady. The one thing every great quarterback shared is that they started games. And they finished them. That takes more than toughness, and it takes more than heart. You also need luck, a body that will not break, a mind that can ignore the obvious dangers that are all around. Here’s a name for you: Greg Cook. Have you heard of him? Bill Walsh, the man who coached Joe Montana, said Greg Cook could have been the greatest quarterback who ever lived. As you know, that did not happen. Cook played one year in the NFL, was chosen Rookie of the Year, but badly hurt his shoulder. He threw only three more passes for the rest of his career. That’s the harshness of the game. And right now, it looks more and more that Brodie Croyle simply cannot take the NFL pounding. The Chiefs’ young team did show promise Sunday. The defense played a high-energy game, and Turk McBride was often unblockable. The offense looked more organized than the last couple of years, and if Devard Darling could run a little faster or Dwayne Bowe could have made a catch, the game would have gone to overtime. But in the end, plainly, you need a quarterback you can count on to go anywhere in this league. The Chiefs said they would test Croyle’s shoulder today, see the seriousness of the injury. “He’s so tough, I’ll bet he will be back sooner than anyone thinks,” Chiefs tight end Tony Gonzalez says. Maybe. Nobody questions Croyle’s heart. It’s his shoulder … and knees … and back. In the end, those things matter just as much as the heart.
Posts: 43,460

09-08-2008, 09:12 AM	#88
jidar MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: a Casino cash: $10004900	This is not a big surprise. The thing the PC types are dancing around is that Brodie is skinny. Seriously skinny. The kid is god damned rail thin, and if you met him on the street and he told you he was going to play in the NFL you'd say "Damn kid, better eat something." He's 6'2 and 205lbs. I was talking to my co-workers this morning about it and we started trying to think of QBs who are as skinny as Brodie and it was pretty hard to do. Here are some names we came up with: P. Manning 6'5 230 T. Brady 6'4 225 J. Cutler 6'3 230 C. Palmer 6'5 230 T. Romo 6'2 224 In fact it went on like this for awhile before someone said: D. Huard 6'3 218 That was funny, the Chiefs at this point have the two skinniest QBs anyone can think of. Until someone said M. Bulger 6'3 212 Okay Bulger is almost as skinny as Croyle, real close. But wait, isn't Bulger hurt all the damned time? Oh yeah.. he is. Folks, the fact is, you can't play QB in the NFL if you're that god damned skinny. Now we gave the kid a few years to try to put on some weight and as far as I can tell he's not more than a lb or two heavier. If he isn't going to try to gain weight then I don't see any reason to keep trying him at QB
Posts: 5,502

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