Chiefs WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil - Page 8

Hammock Parties · 10-14-2008, 11:00 PM

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html

In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon:

The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods.

When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair.

“It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.”

Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent.

Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault.

You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs.

Carl Peterson is responsible for that.

Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem.

It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free.

It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk.

Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team.

•Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process.

•Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season.

•Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary.

•Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free.

•And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement.

All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock.

Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises.

But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge.

Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille.

It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money.

You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection.

Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony.

Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl?

The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.

**Rausch** · 10-15-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

Don't worry.

Clark will hire Marty to GM, and you'll have years of bitching ahead to look forward to.

As a GM he'd be perfect.

Great eye of O line, D line, LB, CB talent without the ability to screw up the game with his horrible decision making.

Hell, I think he'd be a fan-****ing-tastic GM if he had a team of MU grads around to keep his math and cap on trac...

crazycoffey · 10-15-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SBK

This article will bring a bunch of "I usually never agree with Whitlock but he nailed this one" by the same people that write it for all his articles.

He's right on this, Carl has created a freaking clusterfudge here and for some reason Clark just keeps writing his checks.

He's still an A-hole...

Duck Dog · 10-15-2008, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

As a GM he'd be perfect.

Great eye of O line, D line, LB, CB talent without the ability to screw up the game with his horrible decision making.

Hell, I think he'd be a fan-****ing-tastic GM if he had a team of MU grads around to keep his math and cap on trac...

It sure beats the thought of turning into the Faiders with a revolving door of whipping boys.

**DaneMcCloud** · 10-15-2008, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

As a GM he'd be perfect.

Great eye of O line, D line, LB, CB talent without the ability to screw up the game with his horrible decision making.

Hell, I think he'd be a fan-****ing-tastic GM if he had a team of MU grads around to keep his math and cap on trac...

I think you're out of your mind.

Carl Peterson ran those drafts and acquired free-agents for KC before 1997. We all know about the decisions that year (Perriman, Wayne Simmons, Andre Rison, "Mighty" Mouse and most notably, Grbac over Gannon).

He was fired in Washington for wanting personnel control.

He DID NOT make ONE decision in San Diego with regards to talent. That was all John Butler & AJ Smith.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Chiefs roster was LOADED with talent before Marty arrived. Neil Smith, Steve DeBerg, Christian Okoye, Stephone Paige, Carlos Carson, Bill Maas, Deron Cherry, Lloyd Burress, Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross, Dino Hackett, John Alt - the list goes on and on. Add in Derrick Thomas in 1989 and you've got a helluva football team.

Marty's a great regular season coach. And that's ALL he is.

Reerun_KC · 10-15-2008, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think you're out of your mind.

Carl Peterson ran those drafts and acquired free-agents for KC before 1997. We all know about the decisions that year (Perriman, Wayne Simmons, Andre Rison, "Mighty" Mouse and most notably, Grbac over Gannon).

He was fired in Washington for wanting personnel control.

He DID NOT make ONE decision in San Diego with regards to talent. That was all John Butler & AJ Smith.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Chiefs roster was LOADED with talent before Marty arrived. Neil Smith, Steve DeBerg, Christian Okoye, Stephone Paige, Carlos Carson, Bill Maas, Deron Cherry, Lloyd Burress, Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross, Dino Hackett, John Alt - the list goes on and on. Add in Derrick Thomas in 1989 and you've got a helluva football team.

Marty's a great regular season coach. And that's ALL he is.

Holy Shit, I actually agree with you on something.....

kaplin42 · 10-15-2008, 10:56 AM

It's two differant categories really. Carl is the guy that has put all the pieces on the board. And quite frankly, his pieces suck sweaty donkey balls.

But Herm handles the day to day with the players. Herm handles the offensive and defensive philosophies. Herm over sees the development of the players. Herm is the one that makes the shitty game time play calls such as not going for a TD when you are inside the 10 and your team hasn't won shit 12 games and instead, settles for the field goal, and lack of any adjustments made to the game plan.

Make no mistake, Herm has done a wonderfully craptastic job with this team, and he does deserve to get the boot. But, who put him in the position to do this?

In my opinion, they both should be gone. And as I, and many more of you have said already. Clean house, from the top to the very bottom.

milkman · 10-15-2008, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I think you're out of your mind.

Carl Peterson ran those drafts and acquired free-agents for KC before 1997. We all know about the decisions that year (Perriman, Wayne Simmons, Andre Rison, "Mighty" Mouse and most notably, Grbac over Gannon).

He was fired in Washington for wanting personnel control.

He DID NOT make ONE decision in San Diego with regards to talent. That was all John Butler & AJ Smith.

As I mentioned in another thread, the Chiefs roster was LOADED with talent before Marty arrived. Neil Smith, Steve DeBerg, Christian Okoye, Stephone Paige, Carlos Carson, Bill Maas, Deron Cherry, Lloyd Burress, Albert Lewis, Kevin Ross, Dino Hackett, John Alt - the list goes on and on. Add in Derrick Thomas in 1989 and you've got a helluva football team.

Marty's a great regular season coach. And that's ALL he is.

He's a good teacher as well, but everything else is dead on.

FAX · 10-15-2008, 11:09 AM

If Marty would bring back Raider Week, that would be good.

I fear, however, he would attempt to bang every girlfriend and wife associated with the clubhouse. It would increase the number of players asking for a trade 50 fold.

FAX

**Dave Lane** · 10-15-2008, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FAX

Lost in all this is the fact that the Chiefs were also trying to get rid themselves of Surtain, Edwards, LJ, and anybody else with more than 3 years experience. Sure, it's a business and everybody knows that, but those guys have to feel a little wierd about showing up for work.

FAX

The reason he wants rid of the veterans is that they completely aren't buying in to the horrible coaching this team has endured. The rooks don't know any better plus it might buy him an extra year.

FAX · 10-15-2008, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

The reason he wants rid of the veterans is that they completely aren't buying in to the horrible coaching this team has endured. The rooks don't know any better plus it might buy him an extra year.

I agree with that theory, Mr. Dave Lane. It fits the facts as we know them and it's consistent with Herm's somewhat petulent attitude.

I've known a lot of guys like Herm through the years. Guys who bullshit their way into situations that are too big for them. Once there, the results are not and their reaction to accountability is similar to that of a teenager who's been caught doing something stupid ... they either lie or blame someone else for their difficulties or both.

Eventually, the string will run out on him, though. He can't keep changing the means whereby his work product is measured forever. Sooner or later, he has to field a winning football team or find other employment. The shame of it all is that he's actually being paid so much to learn on the job.

FAX

**HemiEd** · 10-15-2008, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rausch

As a GM he'd be perfect.

Great eye of O line, D line, LB, CB talent without the ability to screw up the game with his horrible decision making.

Hell, I think he'd be a fan-****ing-tastic GM if he had a team of MU grads around to keep his math and cap on trac...

I agree, hope it happens.

milkman · 10-15-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I agree, hope it happens.

I'm sorry, but Marty is a terrible talent evaluator.

Give him talent to work with, and he's a good teacher, but no way in hell do I ever want that dumbass picking players in the draft.

Reerun_KC · 10-15-2008, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

I agree, hope it happens.

I am not going to share my whiskey with you....

Reerun_KC · 10-15-2008, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by milkman

I'm sorry, but Marty is a terrible talent evaluator.

Give him talent to work with, and he's a good teacher, but no way in hell do I ever want that dumbass picking players in the draft.

His last couple years here in KC should tell you all you want about Marty...

His Monday Night Meltdown, Morris/Vanover drug ring/Car theft crap... Wayne Simmions... Starting Grbac over Gannon...

Jesus, Marty just scares the shit out of me...

ChiefsCountry · 10-15-2008, 12:18 PM

Hell no to Marty. Lets get some new blood in this organization.

10-14-2008, 11:00 PM
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	WHITLOCK - Herm is innocent, Carl is evil http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chi...ry/841754.html In the minutes after the Chiefs failed to unload unhappy tight end Tony Gonzalez, Herm Edwards sent a clear, concise, fair and accurate message Tuesday afternoon: The aborted fire sale and current mess at Arrowhead Stadium are not his creation or a reflection of his coaching methods. When asked by radio reporter Rhonda Moss what Gonzalez’s trade request said about Carl Peterson, the Chiefs organization and its current head coach, Edwards — perhaps unintentionally — summarized his position on the whole affair. “It doesn’t say anything about me,” Edwards responded. “It doesn’t say one thing about me. It has nothing to do with me. You need to ask the player that. That’s not for me to answer. I’m not going to answer for a football player. I don’t have to do that. I answer for the decisions that I make, what comes out of my mouth.” Edwards couldn’t have been more transparent. Kansas City’s inability to retrieve reasonable compensation for Gonzalez is not Herm’s fault. Larry Johnson’s third assault case and possible suspension (by the league or the Chiefs) are not Herm’s fault. The lack of league-wide interest in the services of Damon Huard, Patrick Surtain and Donnie Edwards is not Herm’s fault. You can blame Herm for Kansas City’s 5-16 record over the past two seasons, but it is unfair to make him culpable for the sad reality that things are likely to get worse before they get significantly better for the Chiefs. Carl Peterson is responsible for that. Much will be made of Herm’s apparently smug and dismissive tone at Tuesday’s news conference. He said he hadn’t spoken to Gonzalez about the situation and probably wouldn’t. Edwards said he hadn’t spoken to Larry Johnson about his latest off-field mishap. With his team sitting at 1-4 and reeling from an embarrassing loss at Carolina, Edwards is focused on controlling what he can control and leaving the rest in God’s hands or the people responsible for the problem. It’s a prudent approach, if you believe the truth will set you free. It’s no secret that the Chiefs are an organization burning in flames, and Edwards seems to be getting more and more comfortable letting everyone see the gas, matches and electric fans sitting on Carl Peterson’s desk. Let’s look at this objectively, shall we? Peterson has run this ballclub like a private fraternity. His special pledges — Gonzalez, Johnson, Priest Holmes and, to a lesser degree, Donnie Edwards — have been rewarded with contracts that haven’t necessarily been in the best interest of the football team. •Peterson misread Gonzalez’s ability to deal with a rebuilding process. •Peterson misread Johnson’s ability to handle success, money, leadership and a 400-carry season. •Peterson misread Holmes’ desire to continue playing football after recovering from a hip injury by any means necessary. •Peterson misread Donnie Edwards’ ability to remain healthy after more than a decade of being injury free. •And most damaging, Peterson miscalculated by a year the right time to blow up the roster and usher in a youth movement. All of that misreading, miscalculating and special friendship with players who have never won the Chiefs a single playoff game created the chaos that has turned the franchise into a laughingstock. Look, if the Patriots give Tom Brady and Tedy Bruschi one contract extension too many, I’ll understand it and totally forgive Bill Belichick. If the Colts let Peyton Manning and Marvin Harrison overstay their usefulness, it’s defensible. Those players won championships for their franchises. But the NFL is the league that dumps Joe Montana and Jerry Rice, runs Brett Favre to New York and lets Joe Namath hobble around Los Angeles and O.J. Simpson limp across San Francisco’s Golden Gate Bridge. Meanwhile, Carl Peterson tosses golden parachutes to his favorite draft picks and free-agent signings over drinks at the Capital Grille. It’s unprofessional. It’s irresponsible. It’s a good-old-boy network in a league that requires a ruthless disloyalty when it comes to money. You know what used to irritate Marty Schottenheimer? Every time he tried to take a hard-line disciplinary stance with Derrick Thomas, the Golden Child would run to his adopted father (Peterson) for protection. Gonzalez has spent the last two weeks upset that he didn’t get to break the tight-end record at home against the Broncos. He had his family in town. The Chiefs were going to stop the game and have a quick ceremony. Who do you think planned the on-field party, Herm or Carl? Who do you think raised Tony’s expectations for a hey-look-at-me moment and set up potential conflict between star player and head coach, Herm or Carl? The way the club is currently managed, a coaching staff filled with Vince Lombardi, Tom Landry, Bill Parcells, Bill Walsh, Don Shula and Hank Stram couldn’t lead the Chiefs to .500.
Posts: 297,336

10-15-2008, 10:56 AM	#111
kaplin42 Thats Right, Sniff the Glue!!! Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: tubbytronic superdome Casino cash: $10007177	It's two differant categories really. Carl is the guy that has put all the pieces on the board. And quite frankly, his pieces suck sweaty donkey balls. But Herm handles the day to day with the players. Herm handles the offensive and defensive philosophies. Herm over sees the development of the players. Herm is the one that makes the shitty game time play calls such as not going for a TD when you are inside the 10 and your team hasn't won shit 12 games and instead, settles for the field goal, and lack of any adjustments made to the game plan. Make no mistake, Herm has done a wonderfully craptastic job with this team, and he does deserve to get the boot. But, who put him in the position to do this? In my opinion, they both should be gone. And as I, and many more of you have said already. Clean house, from the top to the very bottom.
Posts: 3,469

10-15-2008, 11:09 AM	#113
FAX testing ... 1, 2, 3 Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Tennessee Casino cash: $6753759	If Marty would bring back Raider Week, that would be good. I fear, however, he would attempt to bang every girlfriend and wife associated with the clubhouse. It would increase the number of players asking for a trade 50 fold. FAX
Posts: 44,492

10-15-2008, 12:18 PM	#120
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1551248	Hell no to Marty. Lets get some new blood in this organization.
Posts: 52,115

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