Treatise from the "Gang of 14" (Long Read)

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by milkman

So, do you think next year's QB class is going to be better?

I won't know until I see who declares. It should be deeper and more interesting, but as for "better", it's too soon to tell.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I won't know until I see who declares. It should be deeper and more interesting, but as for "better", it's too soon to tell.

Let's assume Bradford goes 1/1 like a lot of mocks from this year had him tabbed. The rest of the "top" guys are a joke. McCoy and Tebow.

From here, you start to talk about projects, as if these top guys aren't this already.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Let's assume Bradford goes 1/1 like a lot of mocks from this year had him tabbed. The rest of the "top" guys are a joke. McCoy and Tebow.

From here, you start to talk about projects, as if these top guys aren't this already.

You call them jokes. I don't agree with that. You need to stop listening to the "Gang", because they don't know what the hell they are talking about. They may succeed or fail, but they are not jokes.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

You call them jokes. I don't agree with that. You need to stop listening to the "Gang", because they don't know what the hell they are talking about. They may succeed or fail, but they are not jokes.

I'm not listening to anyone.

McCoy: 6'3" 205--sound familiar? Factor in the spread.
Tebow: Cannot make all the necessary NFL throws.

This is from me. If you see some agreement from others, it might be that this is a pretty realistic set of points.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

You call them jokes. I don't agree with that. You need to stop listening to the "Gang", because they don't know what the hell they are talking about. They may succeed or fail, but they are not jokes.

They may not be jokes, but the fact is all three of those guys will have a huge adjustment to make to transition to the NFL, and none of them have the physical tools that Stafford or Sanchez has.

I really believe that in the right system with good coaching, Sam Bradford will have a good NFL career, but he's a guy that will have to sit and learn for two years, at the least.

But he doesn't have Sanchez's arm strength, much less Stafford's, and he has a long way to go before he can even hope to compete with Sanchez's mechanics.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by milkman

They may not be jokes, but the fact is all three of those guys will have a huge adjustment to make to transition to the NFL, and none of them have the physical tools that Stafford or Sanchez has.

I really believe that in the right system with good coaching, Sam Bradford will have a good NFL career, but he's a guy that will have to sit and learn for two years, at the least.

But he doesn't have Sanchez's arm strength, much less Stafford's, and he has a long way to go before he can even hope to compete with Sanchez's mechanics.

The only guys I called jokes were McCoy and Tebow.

And yeah, this is an accurate assessment, IMO, of Brodie Croyle II and the black dude who tosses the javelin in Revenge of the Nerds (whom Tebow reminds me of when he launches his patented jump pass).

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by milkman

They may not be jokes, but the fact is all three of those guys will have a huge adjustment to make to transition to the NFL, and none of them have the physical tools that Stafford or Sanchez has.

I really believe that in the right system with good coaching, Sam Bradford will have a good NFL career, but he's a guy that will have to sit and learn for two years, at the least.

But he doesn't have Sanchez's arm strength, much less Stafford's, and he has a long way to go before he can even hope to compete with Sanchez's mechanics.

All quarterbacks have a huge adjustment to make when they transition to the NFL. Dan Marino is almost the sole example of a modern era quarterback who shows no real learning curve to be needed. Will players like Tebow, Bradford, et al. have more adjustments to make than they pro-style QBs? Absolutely. Does that mean they won't succeed? Only time will tell.

I will point out that sometimes the powers that be are completely wrong. It wasn't long ago, after all, that we were told that the era of the pocket passer was over, and that you needed to draft the Michael Vicks of the world if you were going to compete in the 'new' NFL. It's things like this that make message boards worthwhile.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

All quarterbacks have a huge adjustment to make when they transition to the NFL. Dan Marino is almost the sole example of a modern era quarterback who shows no real learning curve to be needed. Will players like Tebow, Bradford, et al. have more adjustments to make than they pro-style QBs? Absolutely. Does that mean they won't succeed? Only time will tell.

I will point out that sometimes the powers that be are completely wrong. It wasn't long ago, after all, that we were told that the era of the pocket passer was over, and that you needed to draft the Michael Vicks of the world if you were going to compete in the 'new' NFL. It's things like this that make message boards worthwhile.

And its things like that that make message boards intolerable.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

All quarterbacks have a huge adjustment to make when they transition to the NFL. Dan Marino is almost the sole example of a modern era quarterback who shows no real learning curve to be needed. Will players like Tebow, Bradford, et al. have more adjustments to make than they pro-style QBs? Absolutely. Does that mean they won't succeed? Only time will tell.

I will point out that sometimes the powers that be are completely wrong. It wasn't long ago, after all, that we were told that the era of the pocket passer was over, and that you needed to draft the Michael Vicks of the world if you were going to compete in the 'new' NFL. It's things like this that make message boards worthwhile.

The difference is that the adjustment for Sanchez and Stafford isn't nearly the huge adjustment that these other QBs will have to make, and they (sanchez and Stafford) have better physical tools.

Those factors alone make this class better.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by milkman

The difference is that the adjustment for Sanchez and Stafford isn't nearly the huge adjustment that these other QBs will have to make, and they (sanchez and Stafford) have better physical tools.

Those factors alone make this class better.

Bradford and McCoy have similar arm strength as Sanchez.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

I won't know until I see who declares. It should be deeper and more interesting, but as for "better", it's too soon to tell.

Lets put it this way JPB, Lets just hope for argument sake that our GM and HC are looking down the ol draft pipe more than just this year.. Lets pray they are looking at needs 2-3 years down the line and have guys they are "already" looking at and trying to figure our how and what they need to complete a team...


I hope they are looking at the QB position along with next years draft and wondering if they really want to wait unitl 2011 to pick a QB, Maybe they have one already picked out in 2011 and want to build the team first?

Maybe they have LB's slotted for the mid rounds this year and DE's high next? Maybe they have a kicker that they want to select 1st over all and move him to safety???

Moral to the story is, lets hope they are smarter than the fanbase whom cant see their face despite their nose. Lets just hope they have a plan that will start to fall into place this draft and they dont waver from it.

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

Lets put it this way JPB, Lets just hope for argument sake that our GM and HC are looking down the ol draft pipe more than just this year.. Lets pray they are looking at needs 2-3 years down the line and have guys they are "already" looking at and trying to figure our how and what they need to complete a team...


I hope they are looking at the QB position along with next years draft and wondering if they really want to wait unitl 2011 to pick a QB, Maybe they have one already picked out in 2011 and want to build the team first?

Maybe they have LB's slotted for the mid rounds this year and DE's high next? Maybe they have a kicker that they want to select 1st over all and move him to safety???

Moral to the story is, lets hope they are smarter than the fanbase whom cant see their face despite their nose. Lets just hope they have a plan that will start to fall into place this draft and they dont waver from it.

If they think Stafford/Sanchez is "the man", they need to pull the trigger to get that guy, even if that means they trade up to the #1 spot to get him. If they don't think either one is "the man", they need to look elsewhere. Hopefully, the portion of the fanbase that thinks it's smarter than any College or NFL head coach will finally figure out that they aren't.

[Reerun_KC]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

If they think Stafford/Sanchez is "the man", they need to pull the trigger to get that guy, even if that means they trade up to the #1 spot to get him. If they don't think either one is "the man", they need to look elsewhere. Hopefully, the portion of the fanbase that thinks it's smarter than any College or NFL head coach will finally figure out that they aren't.

But then your acting like your smarter than any College or NFL Head Coach with those comments...

Why are you right and everyone else is wrong?

What they both grade out equally by the Staff and they dont trade up and take whom is left at #3???

[Just Passin' By]

Originally Posted by Reerun_KC

But then your acting like your smarter than any College or NFL Head Coach with those comments...

Why are you right and everyone else is wrong?

What they both grade out equally by the Staff and they dont trade up and take whom is left at #3???

1.) When it comes to the skills of the 2 quarterbacks, I haven't even come down on one side or the other in any 'final' evaluation. My point has been that the ridiculous and uncalled for attacks on those who dare to opine that Sanchez and/or Stafford are not gambles worth taking at #3 in their estimation should.

2.) I don't think I'm smarter about football than Pete Carroll, other college coaches, or NFL coaches. They won't be correct all the time, and it's fun to question and compare, but I don't pretend to think I'll be right more often in the long run. However, I haven't posted anything on this subject that those coaches don't already know, and I haven't claimed to have done so.

3.) Pete Carroll said that Sanchez should stay in school. I'm not sure how my saying that people shouldn't be berated for not wanting Sanchez at #3 is somehow acting as if I'm smarter than any college or NFL head coach given what came out of his own head coach's mouth.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Just Passin' By

1.) When it comes to the skills of the 2 quarterbacks, I haven't even come down on one side or the other in any 'final' evaluation. My point has been that the ridiculous and uncalled for attacks on those who dare to opine that Sanchez and/or Stafford are not gambles worth taking at #3 in their estimation should.

2.) I don't think I'm smarter about football than Pete Carroll, other college coaches, or NFL coaches. They won't be correct all the time, and it's fun to question and compare, but I don't pretend to think I'll be right more often in the long run. However, I haven't posted anything on this subject that those coaches don't already know, and I haven't claimed to have done so.

3.) Pete Carroll said that Sanchez should stay in school. I'm not sure how my saying that people shouldn't be berated for not wanting Sanchez at #3 is somehow acting as if I'm smarter than any college or NFL head coach given what came out of his own head coach's mouth.

1) No one is not a gamble. Why is this so hard to understand?

You aren't winning a SB without a franchise QB. You aren't getting a franchise QB out of the first round without a near miracle. These two QBs have skillsets that translate excellently into having potential to be a franchise QB.

It's about odds and skills. Odds are, if you want a franchise QB, he comes from round one. If you want a QB, he's coming from round 1. If you want a franchise QB, he better know how to read a defense, come from a pro system, have above average arm strength, and be an accurate passer. The more qualities they possess, the better.

Again, no one has ever posed any form of a cogent argument about why Stafford or Sanchez aren't elite quarterback prospects.

CP from October to December of 2008 was obsessed with denigrating Stafford, now people feel fit to bash everything about Sanchez, from false rape allegations to claims of him being stupid for hiring his brother as agent (which wasn't even true)

The biggest arguments I've heard about Sanchez are the fact that he lacks starting experience (legitimate) and that he looked bad throwing 10 passes in shorts to scrubs at the combine (ridiculous).


3) How many times has this been said? Pete Carroll wants to win for Pete Carroll. Do you think he believes he has a better chance to win with Mitch Mustain, Aaron Corp, Matt Barkley, or Mark Sanchez?

What does he have to gain from Sanchez staying? What does he have to lose from him leaving?