Jon Stewart vs. Jim Cramer

[Third Eye]

Originally Posted by OmahaChief

In the end it is the person that is making the decision to buy or sell that is the one that needs to take the fall not some scapegoat even if said scapegoat was wrong.

Yeah, I just don't see it that way. The people out there that make their decisions based on programs like Cramer's are morons. You can't blame morons for being morons, they just weren't born with the mental faculties. You can, however, take to task those that make their living knowingly manipulating the margin.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Third Eye

Yeah, I just don't see it that way. The people out there that make their decisions based on programs like Cramer's are morons. You can't blame morons for being morons, they just weren't born with the mental faculties. You can, however, take to task those that make their living knowingly manipulating the margin.

So who is "knowingly manipulating the margin" and how?

Do you think Cramer is knowingly giving false information or lying about his stock opinions?

Do you think we should do away with all stock opinion shows, magazines, etc?

Please clue me in if I misunderstood your post.

[Third Eye]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

So who is "knowingly manipulating the margin" and how?

Do you think Cramer is knowingly giving false information or lying about his stock opinions?

Do you think we should do away with all stock opinion shows, magazines, etc?

Please clue me in if I misunderstood your post.

No, I don't think we should do away with all shows of that nature by any means and I'm not sure how you could have inferred that. BUT, as was so eloquently pointed out by Stewart, it's not a ****ing game. We don't need the bells and whistles and pretty shiny objects that amuse the masses.

Do I think Cramer knowingly gave false information or lied about his opinions? That is kind of a tough one to call. Do I think a hedge fund manager knew EXACTLY how entangled the situation had become due to practices like credit default swapping? Hell yes. Do I think that anyone with that much firsthand knowledge of finance and economics should have seen the conflict of interest created by allowing banks to immediately turn over their mortgages to holding companies to securitize, effectively washing their hands of default risk? Hell yes. So did he purposely lie about his picks? Maybe not. Should he have known that the bottom was going to drop out and big time? Absolutely.

Cramer himself admitted their demographic, or at least their goal demographic, was those that were new to financial markets. Thus my reference to the margin.

[eazyb81]

Originally Posted by Third Eye

No, I don't think we should do away with all shows of that nature by any means and I'm not sure how you could have inferred that. BUT, as was so eloquently pointed out by Stewart, it's not a ****ing game. We don't need the bells and whistles and pretty shiny objects that amuse the masses.

Do I think Cramer knowingly gave false information or lied about his opinions? That is kind of a tough one to call. Do I think a hedge fund manager knew EXACTLY how entangled the situation had become due to practices like credit default swapping? Hell yes. Do I think that anyone with that much firsthand knowledge of finance and economics should have seen the conflict of interest created by allowing banks to immediately turn over their mortgages to holding companies to securitize, effectively washing their hands of default risk? Hell yes. So did he purposely lie about his picks? Maybe not. Should he have known that the bottom was going to drop out and big time? Absolutely.

Cramer himself admitted their demographic, or at least their goal demographic, was those that were new to financial markets. Thus my reference to the margin.

In hindsight, yeah, he should have known the bottom was going to fall out at some point, and I'm sure he thought it would at some point. But not even Buffett can know for sure what direction the market will turn, and like I said in an earlier post, EVERYONE got this one wrong.

So yeah, Cramer should certainly have known what was going to happen, but you can lump everyone in that group, including almost every investment bank, hedge fund, mutual fund, etc. People should definitely be held accountable at some level, but Cramer is not near the top of my personal list.

It just seems to me that we're kind of picking on Cramer here simply because he makes his calls every night on a public forum. I guess that is his own fault, and he should have expected to take heat when the market turns like this, but I don't it's truly warranted.

[Third Eye]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

In hindsight, yeah, he should have known the bottom was going to fall out at some point, and I'm sure he thought it would at some point. But not even Buffett can know for sure what direction the market will turn, and like I said in an earlier post, EVERYONE got this one wrong.

So yeah, Cramer should certainly have known what was going to happen, but you can lump everyone in that group, including almost every investment bank, hedge fund, mutual fund, etc. People should definitely be held accountable at some level, but Cramer is not near the top of my personal list.

It just seems to me that we're kind of picking on Cramer here simply because he makes his calls every night on a public forum. I guess that is his own fault, and he should have expected to take heat when the market turns like this, but I don't it's truly warranted.

Don't get me wrong, he is no where near the top of my list. Just another in a long line...

As far as the market turning, many people have been voicing their fears since the late 90's. Any insider had to know. You and I could have never known the extent because most of these activities were off balance sheet. The people that run the various financial market instruments knew though. They were so leveraged and their debt instruments were so entangled, that anyone on the inside had to know that one blow would bring the straw house down.

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by Third Eye

No, I don't think we should do away with all shows of that nature by any means and I'm not sure how you could have inferred that. BUT, as was so eloquently pointed out by Stewart, it's not a ****ing game. We don't need the bells and whistles and pretty shiny objects that amuse the masses.

Do I think Cramer knowingly gave false information or lied about his opinions? That is kind of a tough one to call. Do I think a hedge fund manager knew EXACTLY how entangled the situation had become due to practices like credit default swapping? Hell yes. Do I think that anyone with that much firsthand knowledge of finance and economics should have seen the conflict of interest created by allowing banks to immediately turn over their mortgages to holding companies to securitize, effectively washing their hands of default risk? Hell yes. So did he purposely lie about his picks? Maybe not. Should he have known that the bottom was going to drop out and big time? Absolutely.

Cramer himself admitted their demographic, or at least their goal demographic, was those that were new to financial markets. Thus my reference to the margin.

yup

[Silock]

Originally Posted by eazyb81

So who is "knowingly manipulating the margin" and how?

Do you think Cramer is knowingly giving false information or lying about his stock opinions?

Do you think we should do away with all stock opinion shows, magazines, etc?

Please clue me in if I misunderstood your post.

There are a few things he does. When he recommends a "Buy" on a stock, he waits a week before he actually buys it (and yes, he does buy it for better or worse at the end of that week). Same thing with a "Sell." He waits.

I think he's pretty transparent about what he recommends, and he isn't doing it for his own portfolio. It's for his charitable trust.

I really don't see how Cramer is any different than the guys on "Fast Money" or "Options Action." They all get stuff wrong. At least Cramer owns up to it when he does.

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by Silock

There are a few things he does. When he recommends a "Buy" on a stock, he waits a week before he actually buys it (and yes, he does buy it for better or worse at the end of that week). Same thing with a "Sell." He waits.

I think he's pretty transparent about what he recommends, and he isn't doing it for his own portfolio. It's for his charitable trust.

I really don't see how Cramer is any different than the guys on "Fast Money" or "Options Action." They all get stuff wrong. At least Cramer owns up to it when he does.

Is this true? Verifiable? I don't know if I can believe it, maybe he invests more money under a false identity

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by bdeg

Is this true? Verifiable? I don't know if I can believe it, maybe he invests more money under a false identity

I didn't know that. Are you sure?

[Silock]

Originally Posted by bdeg

Is this true? Verifiable? I don't know if I can believe it, maybe he invests more money under a false identity

Yes, it's true.

I suppose you could go sift through his trash if you're really desperate.

You think he doesn't get enough money from CNBC and his book sales? Or that he doesn't ALREADY have more than enough money from his days on Wall Street and managing a hedge fund?