HOF & 3 Coaches

[Mile High Mania]

Ok, so during some down time the last week I was watching one of the many "Top 10" segments on NFLN. In one of them, they were talking about coaches... the reference was made about Levy being in the HOF and compared him to guys like Reeves and Marty. I would think that both of them are locks for the HOF, so I was looking at their numbers.

Is it just a matter of time for these two? What are your thoughts? I guess my question is why was Marv such a sure fire HOF'er and Dan Reeves with more wins and a nearly identical playoff record ... is waiting longer?

Also, while the playoff numbers kill Marty... shouldn't he be considered?

Marv Levy
Last season was 1997 - inducted in 2001

17 years as a HC / 143 wins and 112 losses
11-8 playoff record
0-4 SB record (1 team)
10 seasons at or above .500

Dan Reeves
Last season was 2003 -

23 years as a HC / 190 wins and 165 losses and 2 ties
11-9 playoff record
0-4 SB record (2 teams)
14 seasons at or above .500

Marty Schottenheimer
Last season was 2006 -

21 years as a HC / 200 wins and 126 losses and 1 tie
5-13 playoff record
0 SB
18 seasons at or above .500

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Mile High Mania

Many RBs over the last decade fall into the same group and most of them are not Emmit Smith and Barry Sanders type of players - those are legit HOF RBs.

George, Watters, Bettis, Lewis, Barber, Portis, Taylor... they're all great RBs, but neither of them really stands out much from the other. So, I think all or none get in... and the same goes with WRs.

I think Irvin was a great WR, but I don't know that he's any more qualified than Rod Smith or even Jimmy Smith for the HOF. Many will say "he has rings", so does Rod... and each of them was considered one of the best of his era for a number of years.

I agree -- they're all out.

IMHO there's waaaay too much focus on skill position players in the NFL HOF anyway, and the standards for them are too loose to begin with.

[Demonpenz]

Originally Posted by Yeoman's Veer

I think Law should be separated out of that group and evaulated individually. He has as good of a case as Vinatieri and Dillon.

Law is a five-time Pro Bowler and two-time All-Pro.

He has 52 career interceptions and has the seventh most INTs return for TDs.

Not saying he's going to get in the HOF soon, but I could see him getting in 30-40 years down the road by the Veterans Committee.

I could certainly see him make the cut to the list of 25 semi-finalists. I don't see that happening with the group you mentioned above.

30-40 years down the road? football probably won't exist. THe Running man will be the only game humans play and watch

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by Yeoman's Veer

I think Law should be separated out of that group and evaulated individually. He has as good of a case as Vinatieri and Dillon.

Law is a five-time Pro Bowler and two-time All-Pro.

He has 52 career interceptions and has the seventh most INTs return for TDs.

Not saying he's going to get in the HOF soon, but I could see him getting in 30-40 years down the road by the Veterans Committee.

I could certainly see him make the cut to the list of 25 semi-finalists. I don't see that happening with the group you mentioned above.

Law was very good. I don't see him getting into the HOF, partly due to the unfair position distribution of the HOF.

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Law was very good. I don't see him getting into the HOF, partly due to the unfair position distribution of the HOF.

Ty Law will get into the HOF. 5x Pro-Bowler, 2x All-Pro, rings, 52 career INTs.

I think Corey Dillon has a tougher time getting in behind Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis.

[Mile High Mania]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Ty Law will get into the HOF. 5x Pro-Bowler, 2x All-Pro, rings, 52 career INTs.

I think Corey Dillon has a tougher time getting in behind Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis.

Corey Dillon much like many of the other RBs didn't do much to stand out.

I think the key theme through most of this thread is that the "bar" needs to be raised when measuring HOF greatness.

[CoMoChief]

God I hate Emmtt Smiff

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by DaKCMan AP

Ty Law will get into the HOF. 5x Pro-Bowler, 2x All-Pro, rings, 52 career INTs.

I think Corey Dillon has a tougher time getting in behind Emmitt Smith, Marshall Faulk, Curtis Martin and Jerome Bettis.

Maybe. There are, count 'em, 20 defensive backs in the Hall of Fame, total. That's cornerbacks AND safeties. Twenty.

And alot of guys ahead of Law on the INTs list aren't in.

Interception Leaders
RK	PLAYER	INT
1	Paul Krause	81
2	Emlen Tunnell	79
3	Rod Woodson	71
4	Dick Lane	68
5	Ken Riley	65
6	Ronnie Lott	63
7	Dave Brown	62
	Dick LeBeau	62
9	Emmitt Thomas	58
10	Mel Blount	57
	Bobby Boyd	57
	Johnny Robinson	57
	Everson Walls	57
	Eugene Robinson	57
15	Lem Barney	56
	Pat Fischer	56
17	Aeneas Williams	55
18	DARREN SHARPER	54
	Darrell Green	54
	Willie Brown	54
	Eric Allen	54

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltim...?cat=intercept

[Valiant]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

The Pro Bowl / All-Pro voters would disagree.

http://www.pro-football-reference.co...n/all-pros.htm

Reeves coached Denver from '81-92. Were there a bunch of other HOFers? No. But there was very solid talent.

Belichick has dominated the NFL for years with one all-world QB and a bunch of "very solid talent" that isn't likely to get into the HOF either. Seymour, maybe. Vinatieri, maybe. Moss, obviously, but none of the SBs involved him (yet).

Wow there are more defenders on that list then I thought during the 80's... Someone just told me the only reason they did not win the superbowls in the 80's was defense.. huh...

[Valiant]

IMO, Marty should not make it in.. The playoff record alone should keep him out..

[Amnorix]

Here's your list of DBs in the HOF.

Defensive Backs (20)
Mike Haynes (CB) 1976-1989
Paul Krause (S) 1964-1979
Ronnie Lott (CB-S) 1981-1994
Willie Wood (S) 1960-1971
Jimmy Johnson (CB) 1961-1976
Willie Brown (CB) 1963-1978
Larry Wilson (S) 1960-1972
Darrell Green (CB) 1983-2002
Emmitt Thomas (CB) 1966-1978
Lem Barney (CB) 1967-1977
Mel Blount (CB) 1970-1983
Jack Christiansen (S) 1951-1958
Ken Houston (S) 1967-1980
Dick (Night Train) Lane (CB) 1952-1965
Mel Renfro (S-CB) 1964-1977
Emlen Tunnell (S) 1948-1961
Rod Woodson 1987-2003
Yale Lary (S) 1952-1953, 1956-1964
Roger Wehrli 1969-1982
Herb Adderley (CB) 1961-1972

[Brock]

Chuck Knox goes in before Marty. Since Levy went in, so should Reeves.

[DaKCMan AP]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

Maybe. There are, count 'em, 20 defensive backs in the Hall of Fame, total. That's cornerbacks AND safeties. Twenty.

And alot of guys ahead of Law on the INTs list aren't in.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/alltim...?cat=intercept

Dick LeBeau should be in already, but will eventually. Aeneas Williams will probably get in before Ty Law is eligible.

[Rain Man]

I've got some past thread as proof, but I'm a proponent of the thought that entry to the Hall of Fame should be proportional to the number of positions. You should have twice as many CBs as QBs, twice as many DEs as C's, etc. Why is the best punter in the history of the NFL (shut up, Baugh-backers) not in the Hall of Fame? It's silly.

Guys like Everson Walls and Kenny Easley and yes, Deron Cherry, should go into the Hall of Fame if they're at the top 2 or 3 percent in their position more so than a QB who's in the top 10 percent or so.

With coaches, I guess one could make the argument about what they did with the players given to them if they're not also the GM, but coach and GM are the only positions where I think championships matter. Players don't have control over who their teammates and systems are. Coaches do (or at least have input), and GMs do.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I've got some past thread as proof, but I'm a proponent of the thought that entry to the Hall of Fame should be proportional to the number of positions. You should have twice as many CBs as QBs, twice as many DEs as C's, etc. Why is the best punter in the history of the NFL (shut up, Baugh-backers) not in the Hall of Fame? It's silly.

Guys like Everson Walls and Kenny Easley and yes, Deron Cherry, should go into the Hall of Fame if they're at the top 2 or 3 percent in their position more so than a QB who's in the top 10 percent or so.

With coaches, I guess one could make the argument about what they did with the players given to them if they're not also the GM, but coach and GM are the only positions where I think championships matter. Players don't have control over who their teammates and systems are. Coaches do (or at least have input), and GMs do.

The best punter should be in the HOF. Best special teams player as well. It's a big part of the game. It's silly not to recognize them. Charles Haley should get in as well.

[Halfcan]

screw all of them-they are not HOF worthy