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Old 08-27-2009, 08:40 PM   #1
DeezNutz DeezNutz is offline
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the only reason he wasn't was because of his age. are you saying that if he put up 2003-2005 numbers when he was in his mid-20s, he wouldn't be considered a future HOFer?

and what kept Trent out of the SB? the Defense.
He didn't start playing football until 2003?

I'd say '97-'02 and '06-'08 had a lot to do with him not being a franchise QB. And the HOF question is a ridiculous leap. If player X had only played at an incredibly high level for his entire career, wouldn't he be a HOFer?

Of course, and if frogs had wings...
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:44 PM   #2
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He didn't start playing football until 2003?

I'd say '97-'02 and '06-'08 had a lot to do with him not being a franchise QB. And the HOF question is a ridiculous leap. If player X had only played at an incredibly high level for his entire career, wouldn't he be a HOFer?

Of course, and if frogs had wings...
He's the expert at ridiculous leaps...

According to him, all we needed was a defense and Trent would have won the SB for us.

Talk about putting the ****ing cart before the horse, as the franchise hadn't won a playoff game in over a decade...
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:54 PM   #3
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He's the expert at ridiculous leaps...

According to him, all we needed was a defense and Trent would have won the SB for us.
uh...we had the best offense and special teams in football. if we had a defense, what other conclusion would you come up with?

and no single player wins a SB, a team does. That's my whole point.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:55 PM   #4
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Talk about putting the ****ing cart before the horse, as the franchise hadn't won a playoff game in over a decade...
what does that have to do with anything? how many playoff games had Arizona won in the last decade, before they went to the SB last year?
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:50 PM   #5
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He didn't start playing football until 2003?

I'd say '97-'02 and '06-'08 had a lot to do with him not being a franchise QB. And the HOF question is a ridiculous leap.
I guess it depends on when you ask the question "is he a franchise QB?" Is it when his career is over, at the peak of his career, or after a few seasons? We seem to be comparing apples to oranges - everyone is being judged at different points in their career and by different standards.

Who kows what TGreen would have been if circumstances were different. Riding the bench for so long, being on shitty teams, the STL injury in 99, getting decapitated...twice.

The "what-if" question abounds - Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are just the tip of the iceberg. Reggie White may only be the greatest defensive player ever because he went to GB and got a ring. Dan Marino is discounted because he never got one.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:55 PM   #6
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I guess it depends on when you ask the question "is he a franchise QB?" Is it when his career is over, at the peak of his career, or after a few seasons? We seem to be comparing apples to oranges - everyone is being judged at different points in their career and by different standards.

Who kows what TGreen would have been if circumstances were different. Riding the bench for so long, being on shitty teams, the STL injury in 99, getting decapitated...twice.

The "what-if" question abounds - Terrell Davis and Priest Holmes are just the tip of the iceberg. Reggie White may only be the greatest defensive player ever because he went to GB and got a ring. Dan Marino is discounted because he never got one.
To me, a franchise QB is one who is the cornerstone of his team. He plays at a very high level for a significant period of time, elevating the play of those who surround him.

Furthermore, he is able to put the team on his shoulders and win a game, and he's able to do this on the biggest stage.

Based on the above, it's pretty easy to see the distinction between a Dilfer and a Roethlisberger. A Marino and a Green.
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Old 08-27-2009, 08:59 PM   #7
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To me, a franchise QB is one who is the cornerstone of his team. He plays at a very high level for a significant period of time, elevating the play of those who surround him.

Furthermore, he is able to put the team on his shoulders and win a game, and he's able to do this on the biggest stage.

Based on the above, it's pretty easy to see the distinction between a Dilfer and a Roethlisberger. A Marino and a Green.
You'd think that.

I'm done.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:04 PM   #8
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To me, a franchise QB is one who is the cornerstone of his team. He plays at a very high level for a significant period of time, elevating the play of those who surround him.

Furthermore, he is able to put the team on his shoulders and win a game, and he's able to do this on the biggest stage.

Based on the above, it's pretty easy to see the distinction between a Dilfer and a Roethlisberger. A Marino and a Green.

its still apples and oranges IMO - Roth has only been playing for, what, 4 years? All the other QBs have had an entire career of ups and down to judge by.

And Roth is being judged PURELY on the rings, nothing else. "He has rings", "He led them on that one drive in the SB". (Nevermind the dominant team that carried him into that position)

Hey, I put Kurt Warner in the category of "surrounded by talent, nothing special", before he did what he did in Arizona last year.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:05 PM   #9
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its still apples and oranges IMO - Roth has only been playing for, what, 4 years? All the other QBs have had an entire career of ups and down to judge by.

And Roth is being judged PURELY on the rings, nothing else. "He has rings", "He led them on that one drive in the SB". (Nevermind the dominant team that carried him into that position)

Hey, I put Kurt Warner in the category of "surrounded by talent, nothing special", before he did what he did in Arizona last year.




If that doesn't explain what a ****ing reerun you are, nothing will.

The guy was only a SBMVP before getting to Arizona...
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:29 AM   #10
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If that doesn't explain what a ****ing reerun you are, nothing will.

The guy was only a SBMVP before getting to Arizona...
oh, you mean the kurt warner that became a journeyman backup for a few years after his run in STL ended?

and even when he was in STL, who were his offensive teammates? Faulk, Holt, Bruce, Pace - most likely all hall of famers, or close.



(but warner can't be a "franchise guy" anyway, since he wasn't drafted high enough to fit your criteria)
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Old 08-28-2009, 08:42 AM   #11
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If that doesn't explain what a ****ing reerun you are, nothing will.
calm down there, bro. its just a discussion of opinions. take a deep breath or two before you have an aneurysm.
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Old 08-27-2009, 09:18 PM   #12
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And Roth is being judged PURELY on the rings, nothing else. "He has rings", "He led them on that one drive in the SB". (Nevermind the dominant team that carried him into that position)
So anyone could have done it? Roethlisberger was carried?
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