Interesting..Pats dump O'Connell

[ILChief]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...evin-oconnell/

[Basileus777]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

And the Pats decided this offseason that Andrew Walter > O'Connell > Guttierrez.

Not necessarily. Given the fact that O'Connell was a 3rd round pick, I don't think the order in which they cut Guttierrez and O'Connell is particularly revealing.

But the Pats kept Andrew Walter and Brian Hoyer over both of them. That should tell you that they both suck.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Basileus777

Not necessarily. Given the fact that O'Connell was a 3rd round pick, I don't think the order in which they cut Guttierrez and O'Connell is particularly revealing.

But the Pats kept Andrew Walter and Brian Hoyer over both of them. That should tell you that they both suck.

From what I've seen, Guttierrez>Thigpen, which tells me, regardless of the reason that O'Connell was held onto over Guttierez, our QB situation sucks.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You have no idea how he would function behind an offensive line that actually formed a sustainable pocket. I agree that he's got a lot of stuff to work on, including decision making, but let's not confuse things he did on purpose versus things he had to do out of necessity.

How many QBs does our o-line have to kill before we realize that maybe some of our QBs are negatively affected by their poor play?

I'm sorry, but when a QB can't hit a wide open FB from 5 yards, even if he's running, and can't throw a pass 30 yards, regardless of the O-Line suckage, that QB sucks ass, and has no possible potential.

And the O-Line suckage was noticeably less when Allenman and Ndukwe entered the game, giving Thigpen a few opportunities to stand in the pocket and and step into his throws, and his accuracy still sucked ass.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

I'm sorry, but when a QB can't hit a wide open FB from 5 yards, even if he's running, and can't throw a pass 30 yards, regardless of the O-Line suckage, that QB sucks ass, and has no possible potential.

And the O-Line suckage was noticeably less when Allenman and Ndukwe entered the game, giving Thigpen a few opportunities to stand in the pocket and and step into his throws, and his accuracy still sucked ass.

I disagree. Those are mechanical problems. They'll be tough to correct, but it's correctable with good coaching. There's no doubt he's raw and with raw comes upside with a lot of risk. But for a #3 QB, I'd rather work with someone like that than a career backup who has limited upside. I just don't see anything in Guttierrez that leads me to believe the guy can develop into anything, regardless of the amount of coaching he gets. He came to the NFL a lot more NFL ready than Thigpen and even still, arguably he hasn't been a whole lot better.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I disagree. Those are mechanical problems. They'll be tough to correct, but it's correctable with good coaching. There's no doubt he's raw and with raw comes upside with a lot of risk. But for a #3 QB, I'd rather work with someone like that than a career backup who has limited upside. I just don't see anything in Guttierrez that leads me to believe the guy can develop into anything, regardless of the amount of coaching he gets. He came to the NFL a lot more NFL ready than Thigpen and even still, arguably he hasn't been a whole lot better.

I'm sorry, but you are full of shit.

Missing a receiver 5 yards away while eluding the rush is not a mechanical problem.

Good God you people are ****ing amazing.

[TFG]

O'Connell is a classic example of a QB with everything except intelligence. It took Terry Bradshaw years to get it down. The problem is that O'Connell needs to play, and NFLE isn't there anymore. His performance against the Skins was just shockingly bad. Staring down receivers and then gunning INTs.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I just don't see anything in Guttierrez that leads me to believe the guy can develop into anything, regardless of the amount of coaching he gets. He came to the NFL a lot more NFL ready than Thigpen and even still, arguably he hasn't been a whole lot better.

Ok, now I'm confused.

The QB who came into the league more NFL ready is, for some reason, incapable of further developing, but the QB who, mechanically speaking, doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground is capable? Why?

Thigpen would have to develop greatly to get to Gut's level of suck.

And here's one major reason why Gut has much greater potential than the skeleton ****er ever will: Gut can throw an accurate ball, when receiving the ball under center, even!

Sometimes it's suggestive of being a real life NFL player.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

I'm sorry, but you are full of shit.

Missing a receiver 5 yards away while eluding the rush is not a mechanical problem.

Good God you people are ****ing amazing.

http://elitequarterback.blogspot.com...ng-on-run.html
And it goes without saying that if your technique isn't great in the pocket, it probably isn't great on the run. With better fundamentals, he can most definitely become more accurate on this throw.

[KCUnited]

And the debate over our 3rd string QB rages on.

[alanm]

It doesn't matter how good or how much they suck it won't matter if they end up splattered like a raccoon on the highway because of the O-line.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

Ok, now I'm confused.

The QB who came into the league more NFL ready is, for some reason, incapable of further developing, but the QB who, mechanically speaking, doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground is capable? Why?

Thigpen would have to develop greatly to get to Gut's level of suck.

And here's one major reason why Gut has much greater potential than the skeleton ****er ever will: Gut can throw an accurate ball, when receiving the ball under center, even!

Sometimes it's suggestive of being a real life NFL player.

It's pretty simple. Guiterrez has had access to oustanding coaching. He was coached by Bellichick and Josh McDaniels, both of whom are "quarterback makers." Guiterrez has been coached to play under center and is probably a lot more mechanically sound. What you see from Guiterrez is now is probably what you'll get 5 years from now. With good coaching and experience in a pro offense, he was still cut by the Patriots and is still taking last team reps with the Chiefs. He has a much, much lower ceiling. He is a career third stringer. At best, he's a future backup.

It's pretty simple. Given that Guiterrez has had a lot more opportunity to become better, it's safer to say his ability is close to maxed out. For Guiterrez the sky is the limit, for Thigpen the limit is the sky. So no, it's not saying that Thigpen after years of training will get to Guiterrez's level. The point is, the fact that Guiterrez is a much more polished QB and isn't a whole lot better than Thigpen right now (if at all) is a bad thing.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by alanm

It doesn't matter how good or how much they suck it won't matter if they end up splattered like a raccoon on the highway because of the O-line.

Pretty much how I see it too.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

http://elitequarterback.blogspot.com...ng-on-run.html
And it goes without saying that if your technique isn't great in the pocket, it probably isn't great on the run. With better fundamentals, he can most definitely become more accurate on this throw.

We are talking about 5 ****ing yards.

He should be able to throw that pass sidearemed, underarmed, behind his back, between his ****ing legs while on his knees and stil hit that ****ing pass.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

It's pretty simple. Guiterrez has had access to oustanding coaching. He was coached by Bellichick and Josh McDaniels, both of whom are "quarterback makers." Guiterrez has been coached to play under center and is probably a lot more mechanically sound. What you see from Guiterrez is now is probably what you'll get 5 years from now. With good coaching and experience in a pro offense, he was still cut by the Patriots and is still taking last team reps with the Chiefs. He has a much, much lower ceiling. He is a career third stringer. At best, he's a future backup.

It's pretty simple. Given that Guiterrez has had a lot more opportunity to become better, it's safer to say his ability is close to maxed out. For Guiterrez the sky is the limit, for Thigpen the limit is the sky. So no, it's not saying that Thigpen after years of training will get to Guiterrez's level. The point is, the fact that Guiterrez is a much more polished QB and isn't a whole lot better than Thigpen right now (if at all) is a bad thing.

McDaniels is a QB maker?

Gut has had more opportunity to get better? Really? What was all of last season for Thigpen?

At this very moment, Thigpen couldn't carry Gut's jock, and that's not exactly praise for the latter.

[bevischief]

Sounds like they know something about our QB situation and Cassel maybe hurt worse than they are letting on...