Is it conceivable for the Chiefs to dump Pioli & Haley and get Cowher for GM & HC?

[kcbubb]

I never wanted Pioli or Haley and I would love to see Cowher in KC. Is it possible?

[Chiefnj2]

A lot of planet members have a warped view of what an impact player is. Unless you put up certain stats, you aren't an impact player to some people.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

No we didn't have the opportunity yet. This was about as piss poor of a FA pool as I remember seeing. And as I have pointed out many times, we didn't get anyone in worth signing that we missed on.

Second, if you picked the Chiefs to win 3 games then WTF are you complaining about "dumbass"??? Seems to me as if most everyone knew we would suck this year and that a big turnover in roster and change in mindset would have to take place. That doesn't happen in one year. So about it holding a GM to some standard when the guy hasn't even had time to put his stamp on things.

Nice limited vision there. I predicted 3 wins, therefore I shouldn't criticize the team for anything since we might not even get 3 wins? That's quite the ignorant mindset. I don't care about how many wins we get this year. A team in this position shouldn't be judged solely on W-L record prediction. There are many more factors that you are foolishly ignoring. I care about improvement, player evaluation, and overall team direction. In those regards, I have plenty to criticize.

You may be content with simply equating W-L prediction with overall team progress, but some fans actually look at more than that when evaluating the team. I'll continue to hold the GM to what he says. You can continue to bend over and be patient. I'm done with that.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Admittedly, I have been dissapointed with the Chiefs. I expected them to be better, and I expected better coaching decisions.

I think they were a better team last year with less talent.

But, I think this team is laying the foundation. I think that Haley believes in doing things a certain way and will stick to it regardless of losses.

In the end, if he is right, this will build a stronger team.

Part of building the right foundation is the mentality of the players.... which is why they are content to bring in players they know over other guys.

The other part of this, is that until you actually get on the field with a guy, you don't know what he is capable of. You can watch film, but you don't know for sure how he would do in your system, with what you ask a guy to do.

I think the Chiefs were wise to limit their free agency moves. The Chiefs weren't going to contend for anything anyways this year. So, get the talent on the field, see what they can do, define the problem, and then start to solve the problem.

Patience is a virtue. I am happy to see an organization more focused on building a true winner, rather than perpetuating mediocrity.

It is about time the Chiefs were built the right way. I like the overall approach, even if I dissagree with certain things about the way the head coach has handled games, and the way the GM has handled other things.

Time will tell, but the one thing that is certain, and encouraging, is that this regime is clearly looking to the future.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

Admittedly, I have been dissapointed with the Chiefs. I expected them to be better, and I expected better coaching decisions.

I think they were a better team last year with less talent.

But, I think this team is laying the foundation. I think that Haley believes in doing things a certain way and will stick to it regardless of losses.

In the end, if he is right, this will build a stronger team.

Part of building the right foundation is the mentality of the players.... which is why they are content to bring in players they know over other guys.

The other part of this, is that until you actually get on the field with a guy, you don't know what he is capable of. You can watch film, but you don't know for sure how he would do in your system, with what you ask a guy to do.

I think the Chiefs were wise to limit their free agency moves. The Chiefs weren't going to contend for anything anyways this year. So, get the talent on the field, see what they can do, define the problem, and then start to solve the problem.

Patience is a virtue. I am happy to see an organization more focused on building a true winner, rather than perpetuating mediocrity.

It is about time the Chiefs were built the right way. I like the overall approach, even if I dissagree with certain things about the way the head coach has handled games, and the way the GM has handled other things.

Time will tell, but the one thing that is certain, and encouraging, is that this regime is clearly looking to the future.

Since you say that, I have to ask. What do you think Pioli and Haley's approach is exactly? Please define for me, what Pioli and Haley are doing that you really approve of. Because I'm having a hard time seeing a pattern to their process.

What is it in general, that gives you the feeling they are clearly looking to the future? What are the positives that make you patient with what they're doing? Where are you seeing progress?

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Richard Seymour was never an impact player?

Aaron Smith a few years ago wasn't an impact player?

Wayne Martin of the Saints dome patrol linebackers fame, he wasn't an impact player????

When surrounded by excellent talent, those three guys you mentioned played very well. But what I meant by "impact" is a guy who does something on their own - a game changer.

Tyson Jackson and the overwhelming majority of 3-4, 5-tech defensive ends are not the type of guys to put a team on their shoulders and lead them to victory.

IMO, the Chiefs needed the type of player at #3 overall that makes an impact on the game, not a guy who's primary job is to let other people make plays. Especially when the linebackers and safeties are not in place.

I've said this before and I'll say again: Tyson Jackson could turn out to be the greatest 5-tech player to ever play the game. But unless the Chiefs acquire outstanding linebackers and safeties, no one will even know or care.

And that for me makes it a wasted pick.

[wild1]

I think it's a general lack of knowledge about the 3-4 system that causes Jackson to get bashed here more than anything else. Is he productive or is he not will be a question we have to answer a couple of years down the road. But it's readily apparent that most people on this forum have no clue what a defensive end does in this system. Of course, it's not every critique that is like this, but so many seem to be simply rooted in "I didn't see him get a sack this week, he sucks"

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Since you say that, I have to ask. What do you think Pioli and Haley's approach is exactly? Please define for me, what Pioli and Haley are doing that you really approve of. Because I'm having a hard time seeing a pattern to their process.

What is it in general, that gives you the feeling they are clearly looking to the future? What are the positives that make you patient with what they're doing? Where are you seeing progress?

That is a very fair question.

#1) Most see the willingness to bing in familiar players as a weakness. I see it as a strength. The Chiefs are a fragile team right now, and I think they have to make sure the guys they bring in, have the right attitude.

#2) Patience. They didn't come in and make a ton of changes right away. Some think that this is a weakness. I don't. I think they were smart to get the talent on the field before they decided what guys could actually do.

#3) Cutting talented players that didn't fit the organization. They cut Pollard and Boone. They are both guys that have talent and could have fit this system. This is frustrating on the surface. But, I think they were looking at more than just talent. They were looking at chemistry and accountability.

#4) Lack of panic. Cassel has struggled. It would be easy for the Chiefs to start Brodie to try to get a 'spark'. Or for them to draw up more gimmick plays like the Chiefs did last year. It would be easy to cave in and give DJ his starting job back.

I just see a steady hand guiding the organization.

Now, I have been critical of Haley and if Haley loses the team, then he should be fire when that happens.

But, until then, I think he should be given three years to build the team.

[SenselessChiefsFan]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

When surrounded by excellent talent, those three guys you mentioned played very well. But what I meant by "impact" is a guy who does something on their own - a game changer.

Tyson Jackson and the overwhelming majority of 3-4, 5-tech defensive ends are not the type of guys to put a team on their shoulders and lead them to victory.

IMO, the Chiefs needed the type of player at #3 overall that makes an impact on the game, not a guy who's primary job is to let other people make plays. Especially when the linebackers and safeties are not in place.

I've said this before and I'll say again: Tyson Jackson could turn out to be the greatest 5-tech player to ever play the game. But unless the Chiefs acquire outstanding linebackers and safeties, no one will even know or care.

And that for me makes it a wasted pick.

If he turns out to be the best 5-tech ever, the Chiefs won't need outstanding linebackers.

So long as he is productive, and a legit starter, it isn't a wasted pick.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by wild1

I think it's a general lack of knowledge about the 3-4 system that causes Jackson to get bashed here more than anything else. Is he productive or is he not will be a question we have to answer a couple of years down the road. But it's readily apparent that most people on this forum have no clue what a defensive end does in this system. Of course, it's not every critique that is like this, but so many seem to be simply rooted in "I didn't see him get a sack this week, he sucks"

I don't buy that at all.

I just that think that the people you're describing would have rather seen the #3 overall pick used on a player like Moreno, Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin or even Oher.

Quantifiable results. Not this "well, if YOU knew what they were supposed to do" garbage.

[DeezNutz]

[QUOTE=SensibleChiefsfan;6227101]

#1) Most see the willingness to bing in familiar players as a weakness. I see it as a strength. The Chiefs are a fragile team right now, and I think they have to make sure the guys they bring in, have the right attitude.

[QUOTE]

Doesn't LJ undermine this argument, the thought that the "right 53" is more than empty rhetoric?

Oops. I ****ed up the quotation.

[beach tribe]

I'm blown away that this thread has so many responses. I guess i'll have to read some of it, but to answer the ??, No. Duh. No. Absofuqinlutely not. It will NEVER happen, but I'm sure plenty have already told you the answer to such an easy ??.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

If he turns out to be the best 5-tech ever, the Chiefs won't need outstanding linebackers.

So long as he is productive, and a legit starter, it isn't a wasted pick.

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I don't buy that at all.

I just that think that the people you're describing would have rather seen the #3 overall pick used on a player like Moreno, Crabtree, Harvin, Maclin or even Oher.

Quantifiable results. Not this "well, if YOU knew what they were supposed to do" garbage.

People really would have wanted this team to pick a RB at #3?

Those people are morans.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

A 34 DE who ties up two OL and maybe helps contain the QB and push in the pocket enabling the OLB to get to the QB isn't a playmaker? Only the guy who actually gets the sack is the playmaker?

[beach tribe]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Bullshit.

If the Chiefs don't acquire a Jon Abraham/Joey Porter/James Harrison type of pass rushing machine, Tyson Jackson's selection is even worse.

The linebackers in the 3-4 are THE playmakers. If there are no playmakers behind Jackson, guess what happens?

Oh yeah, I think we already know because we see it each and every week.

God we need a pass rusher. I think TJ, and maybe even Dorsey, are going to make some decent pass rushers look pretty good.