Bill Simmons on Tom Brady/Matt Cassel

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

If 8 games in '09 were enough to shellshock Cassel, he's an unbelievable pussy.

He needs another viable weapon, and then he needs to perform. No excuses.

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

We're on the same page. But, honestly, I don't know how else to put it when I hear talk about Cassel's development being stunted because of the line. It was really bad in a handful of games. Fine. But not a problem in the second half.

What are you supposed to call a QB who can't overcome this mental obstacle?

Also, notice that Manning uses all of his options, distributing the ball to anyone, including no-name limp dicks. Magically, they catch passes and make plays. Why is this? Superior talent? Or...

I don't think Cassel throws a very catchable ball.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

We're on the same page. But, honestly, I don't know how else to put it when I hear talk about Cassel's development being stunted because of the line. It was really bad in a handful of games. Fine. But not a problem in the second half.

What are you supposed to call a QB who can't overcome this mental obstacle?

Also, notice that Manning uses all of his options, distributing the ball to anyone, including no-name limp dicks. Magically, they catch passes and make plays. Why is this? Superior talent? Or...

I don't think Cassel throws a very catchable ball.

I don't buy that.

Chambers hasn't had much problem catching the ball. And Rivers throws the absolute worst ball in football.

Our receivers just aren't very good. And Chris Chambers, a good not great receiver, who performed extremely well in the worst of circumstances is living proof of that.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't buy that.

Chambers hasn't had much problem catching the ball. And Rivers throws the absolute worst ball in football.

Our receivers just aren't very good. And Chris Chambers, a good not great receiver, who performed extremely well in the worst of circumstances is living proof of that.

Rivers' mechanics are ugly, but his passes are not the worst balls in football.

He throws a very catchable ball.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

Rivers' mechanics are ugly, but his passes are not the worst balls in football.

He throws a very catchable ball.

He throws the ball with quite a bit of accuracy. I'm just pointing out that his passes wobble more than any QB in the league right now.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I don't buy that.

Chambers hasn't had much problem catching the ball. And Rivers throws the absolute worst ball in football.

Our receivers just aren't very good. And Chris Chambers, a good not great receiver, who performed extremely well in the worst of circumstances is living proof of that.

For a guy who caught 36 balls, you've been loving on Chambers an awful lot.

Sadly, he's been one of Pioli's best moves, but I need to see more before I'm ready to crown Chambers' ass just yet. If we could get two more productive seasons out of him, that would be a win. Hell, I'd settle for a strong '10.

But he was very good at fielding wobble punts from Cassel. Dude bailed out his QB on some of the more embarrassing deep balls that I've seen.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

For a guy who caught 36 balls, you've been loving on Chambers an awful lot.

Sadly, he's been one of Pioli's best moves, but I need to see more before I'm ready to crown Chambers' ass just yet. If we could get two more productive seasons out of him, that would be a win. Hell, I'd settle for a strong '10.

But he was very good at fielding wobble punts from Cassel. Dude bailed out his QB on some of the more embarrassing deep balls that I've seen.

I only love Chambers because I think he's exposed our receiver corps for being as bad as they are. Before Chambers, I thought Bowe was pretty much untouchable. A million excuses for why he was underperforming.

I think Chambers has 1-2 years left in the tank and I worry that he'll disappear after he gets a big contract, as he did in San Diego. But in terms of the way he played the position, he was the only receiver in 2009 for the Chiefs that looked like he belonged in the NFL. Bowe included. He made adjustments to the ball, made the extra effort to make catches, and didn't drop passes.

[DeezNutz]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I only love Chambers because I think he's exposed our receiver corps for being as bad as they are. Before Chambers, I thought Bowe was pretty much untouchable. A million excuses for why he was underperforming.

I think Chambers has 1-2 years left in the tank and I worry that he'll disappear after he gets a big contract, as he did in San Diego. But in terms of the way he played the position, he was the only receiver in 2009 for the Chiefs that looked like he belonged in the NFL. Bowe included. He made adjustments to the ball, made the extra effort to make catches, and didn't drop passes.

I want to see a '10 Bowe minus some of Haley's early bullshit. For example, I'd like to see him actually get to work with Cassel in preseason. Crazy shit like that.

[philfree]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I want to see a '10 Bowe minus some of Haley's early bullshit. For example, I'd like to see him actually get to work with Cassel in preseason. Crazy shit like that.

Well maybe if he comes into camp in shape and at the correct weight he'll get that chance. At this point he knows what's expected of him so he has no excuses.


PhilFree

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

I want to see a '10 Bowe minus some of Haley's early bullshit. For example, I'd like to see him actually get to work with Cassel in preseason. Crazy shit like that.

That's a fair point, but it's another reason I point to Chambers. This is a guy who worked with Cassel for less than a week before he started to explode. I can only hope that he's made Bowe realize that he's out of excuses. Bowe, to me, is quickly reaching DJ status. A talented player who doesn't play the position consistently enough that I wonder if this is a guy you want on a playoff roster a few years from now.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

I think there's a difference between a poorly placed ball and a poorly thrown ball (though I would also argue that a couple of the passes you allude to here, like the Henderson catch, were actually perfectly placed throws given the coverage, but that's another debate).

Some of the drops by the Chiefs were both poorly placed and poorly thrown.

A drop by Bowe was a ball so wobbly it damn near looked like an end over end punted ball.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by milkman

I think there's a difference between a poorly placed ball and a poorly thrown ball (though I would also argue that a couple of the passes you allude to here, like the Henderson catch, were actually perfectly placed throws given the coverage, but that's another debate).

Don't get me wrong. Perfectly thrown balls. And what makes Brees so amazing is he is flawless at knowing how to throw passes that only the receiver can get to. Cassel doesn't have that. The point is, there are a ton of catches in the game where I saw Brees throw to a receiver's back shoulder and the receiver makes an in-route adjustment. I almost never see Bowe do that. I have seen Chambers do that on a number of occasions, and he's only been here half a year.

This is definitely not saying Brees is inaccurate. It's merely ripping into our receivers, namely Bowe, for never doing anything in-route to adjust to the ball.

Some of the drops by the Chiefs were both poorly placed and poorly thrown.

Some of them were. Unfortunately, a pretty good chunk of them were imperfect but very catchable passes. Like I said, if you actually watch the placement of a lot of Peyton's passes, they end up at the receiver's back hip. Sometimes that's intentional, but regardless, it's not a pass in stride and the receiver makes a necessary adjustment. Apart from Chambers and once a game (at the most) Bowe, our receivers can't catch the ball unless it is a perfect pass thrown exactly in stride. That's an enormous problem.

A drop by Bowe was a ball so wobbly it damn near looked like an end over end punted ball.

Sometimes. But I would argue that on most passes, Cassel's ball looks a hundred times better than Rivers' ball. And Chargers' receivers never drop a thing.


I'm not making excuses for Cassel. He's got to get better and he can't do 1/20 of the things yesterday's QBs did. But the more I watch the playoffs, the more I realize how much our receivers suck. And it's not just the Fitzgeralds of the world doing this. It's the Colliers, the Devery Hendersons, and the Doucets. The more I watch these guys the more I question if Bowe is any good at all.

[SAUTO]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I wouldn't put it that way on the first point, but the line is no excuse. That I agree with. He had good enough protection in the second half of the season and a hell of a lot better than Aaron Rodgers gets.

On the second point, that's something I also agree with. As I watched the Colts play last night, I realized that Peyton Manning actually throws to the back of his receivers quite a bit. He's not always perfect at leading his receivers. And as I watched the Saints, Brees throws a ton of passes to the receivers' back shoulder. The Saints' receivers are actually really remarkable about making in-pass adjustments to the ball. i remember a TD pass where I think it was Devery Henderson pretty much did a full 180 to make the proper adjustment to the ball on a fleaflicker. And if you watch Philip Rivers today, what you will see is probably the deadest, worst thrown ball I've ever seen in the NFL. But his receivers catch them. Of course I'm not implying that Cassel is even close to being in any of those guys' league. But I have seen the excuse thrown around that he cripples his receivers, but the more I watch playoff football, the more I realize that receivers just don't have any excuse for not catching a ball that isn't within reasonable reaching distance of their hands. Good receivers make adjustments. Chambers has done that a lot. My opinion of Bowe has taken a complete nosedive throughout this season.

no one wants to hear this, i have said it many times. NO QB IS PERFECT. i said to myself many times during both games that we had NO wr tha wouldve caught those balls. hell a couple of weeks ago rivers threw a wobbler to his, GASP, FULLBACK yep you heard me his fullback, and it was actually caught. wow
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