MIKE PORTNOY Quits DREAM THEATER

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

Name 12 guitarists off the top of your head that can do what Petrucci does.

That didn't take long. Now, name 12 drummers off the top of your head that can do what Portnoy does.

That one's a lot harder.

I disagree.

There are more drummers with monster ****ing chops than there are guitarists.

The smart drummers are just doing their jobs.

There are very few guitarists around that can shred but don't.

[rtmike]

Wow. I had one or two of their LP's from way back.

Didn't know they were still around or had such a following?

I liked them, not the way I liked per say Boston.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by rtmike

Wow. I had one or two of their LP's from way back.

Didn't know they were still around or had such a following?

I liked them, not the way I liked per say Boston.

They don't have a "huge" following, just a dedicated following

[midgetbolt]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I disagree.

There are more drummers with monster ****ing chops than there are guitarists.

The smart drummers are just doing their jobs.

There are very few guitarists around that can shred but don't.

I disagree with this.

First of all, I don't think Petrucci is replacable (or any of them for that matter). Having said that, I think there are way more great guitarists than there are great drummers.

Growing up in the '80s, it seemed like every band had at least one great guitarist that could shred some wicked guitar solo.

As a drummer, there were very few bands that had a drummer that was able to play complex rhythems and beats, play in odd time meters and signatures, and "shred" complex fills and/or drum solos within the framework of a song.

The only truly "great" rock drummers (and rock music is an important distinction here) in the last 30 years have been Peart, Portnoy, Carey, and maybe Terry Bozio. Very good drummers would include McBrain, VanHalen, Travis Smith, The Rev, Lars, Lombardo, and I can't think of many others.

There were so many bands in the late '70s, '80s, and early '90s that had exceptional guitarists and average to poor drummers. The Scorpions, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Ozzy, Motley Crue, Alice in Chains, G n R, and on and on. Not to mention guys like Steve Vai and Satriani that could absolutely shred.

From personal experience, I've never played with a guitarist that didn't have outstanding chops, but I've had a lot of them tell me they've never played with a drummer as good as me.

I think it's way harder to replace a great bassist. There are very few rock bassists that I would consider great.

And as far as DT is concerned, Rudess would probably be the hardest to replace. He is truly other-worldly.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by midgetbolt

And as far as DT is concerned, Rudess would probably be the hardest to replace. He is truly other-worldly.

**** Rudess. He is an other-wordly talent, but he's the musical equivalent of the kinds of writers who are so completely self-indulgent with their prose that the quality of the fiction is marred. The band has become so sloppy in terms of songwriting with Rudess at the keys. Kevin Moore was so much better for the band.

[midgetbolt]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

**** Rudess. He is an other-wordly talent, but he's the musical equivalent of the kinds of writers who are so completely self-indulgent with their prose that the quality of the fiction is marred. The band has become so sloppy in terms of songwriting with Rudess at the keys. Kevin Moore was so much better for the band.

That's surely a strong argument in terms of the band becoming "lazy" since the addition of Rudess. I surely liked their music much moore when Moore and (can't remember the other guys name and too damn lazy to look it up) the other guy were playing. But that's simply my preference (although I thought Metropolis 2 was outstanding).

I only meant that Rudess was the hardest to replace in terms of how the band has developed their sound and style, I think he would be the hardest to replace, as in what other keyboardist could replicate what he plays? I don't play keyboard, have a friend that does and has for nearly 20 years, and he says Rudess is hands down the best he's ever heard and the most difficult to emulate.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by midgetbolt

I disagree with this.

As a drummer, there were very few bands that had a drummer that was able to play complex rhythems and beats, play in odd time meters and signatures, and "shred" complex fills and/or drum solos within the framework of a song.

Are you a Berklee Grad?

If not, shut the **** up.

Bassist?



Where do you live? Goodland?

[midgetbolt]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Are you a Berklee Grad?

If not, shut the **** up.

Bassist?



Where do you live? Goodland?

What the **** does being a Berklee grad have to do with it? No but I've played the drums for over, holy shit, 26 years now (**** I'm gettin old). I guess I can presume that you are a Berklee Grad then, yes?

As I said, which you ignored, there are very few great "rock" drummers. I mentioned Weckl earlier, but he is not a rock drummer, he plays almost strictly jazz and/or fusion.

I mentioned someone that played with Zappa, Terry Bozzio.

Bruford is strictly a jazz player these days.

You can laugh at Alex VH and Lars all you want, and I'm not privy to any inside information on what went on in the studio with them, but their contributions to "rock" drumming have been significant. When I measure a drummer's worth, I only have their music that I hear to go by. You can't argue that Lars influenced many drummers (Portnoy included) with his playing and style, particularly his use of double base. Same for Alex VH, especially his work on 1984.

I was never a big fan of either one personally, but that doesn't mean they didn't help shape and define the "rock" drumming of their time.

I don't give a shit what a guy can do on a drumset when he's just showing off his chops, with no one else playing. To me what makes a drummer good to great is how he incorporates those chops into the songs of the band, adding to the song, making the drum parts memorable while not overplaying and taking away from the song.

Thus, a guy like Neil Peart is a drumming god, while a guy like Steve Smith is not. Both guys can shred a drumset, but Tom Sawyer (or even Closer to the Heart) got me a lot more fired up to play my kit than Open Arms.

Just like in sports. JaMarcuss Russell could do things on the practice field that Joe Montana could only dream about. Who gives a shit? It's what you do in the games that count.

[midgetbolt]

Oh, and the one guy I think could (and possibly might) replace Portnoy:

Mike Mangini

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by midgetbolt

Oh, and the one guy I think could (and possibly might) replace Portnoy:

Mike Mangini

This post gave me the hilarious image of Mark Mangini playing drums for Dream Theater.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

This post gave me the hilarious image of Mark Mangini playing drums for Dream Theater.

Who is Mark Mangini? Safe to assume you mean Mangino?

Oh Lord, I see a Photoshop coming. You bastard!

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by midgetbolt

I don't give a shit what a guy can do on a drumset when he's just showing off his chops, with no one else playing. To me what makes a drummer good to great is how he incorporates those chops into the songs of the band, adding to the song, making the drum parts memorable while not overplaying and taking away from the song.

Not to get into your argument with Dane, but this just reminded me of something. I remember when Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence came out. There were some guys complaining of Portnoy's use of roto tom rolls on the soft and mellow intro to the song Misunderstood. Guys on a forum (Rush fans?) were bitching because they thought it was way overkill. I just remember thinking "Do you know why he plays that? Because he ****ing can so shut up!" Sry, no offense intended. Your post just reminded me of that part.

Oh and I'm not 100% sure what Dane was meaning, but perhaps he is referring to the fact that Portnoy, Petrucci, and Myung studied and Berklee College of Music in Boston(?) before starting DT. They dropped out to do the band thing. Just FYI.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by midgetbolt

The only truly "great" rock drummers (and rock music is an important distinction here) in the last 30 years have been Peart, Portnoy, Carey, and maybe Terry Bozio. Very good drummers would include McBrain, VanHalen, Travis Smith, The Rev, Lars, Lombardo, and I can't think of many others.

You clearly don't know a ****ing thing about drummers.

Alex Van Halen?



Andy Johns could tell you a few stories. Didn't you just love his Simmons drums on 1984, 5150 and OU812? They were the BOMB!



And LARS? ****, Dude. The ENTIRE Black album was cut and paste to TAPE. Not a computer, tape. They cut so much ****ing tape that all of the cymbals had to be re-cut because they were chopped off when trying to get the drums in time.

There are an ENDLESS number of players who could play Portnoy's parts.

Dave Weckl, Brian Tichy, Taylor Hawkins, anyone that's played with Zappa or Vai (Chris Frazier, FTW?), Phil Collins, Bill Bruford, Robin Dimaggio and an and on and on.

If Portnoy is thought to be "special", it's because of the attitude and vibe he brought to the band. The sense of direction.

Not because of his chops.

[Reaper16]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

There are an ENDLESS number of players who could play Portnoy's parts.

Dave Weckl, Brian Tichy, Taylor Hawkins, anyone that's played with Zappa or Vai (Chris Frazier, FTW?), Phil Collins, Bill Bruford, Robin Dimaggio and an and on and on.

If Portnoy is thought to be "special", it's because of the attitude and vibe he brought to the band. The sense of direction.

Not because of his chops.

If there are an endless number of drummers that can play Portnoy's parts then there are an endless number of guitarists who can play Petrucci's parts.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by Reaper16

If there are an endless number of drummers that can play Portnoy's parts then there are an endless number of guitarists who can play Petrucci's parts.

Untrue.

My experience has been that there are far more extremely talented drummers that "hide" their chops in order to work.

Conversely, many guitarists struggle to do even the simplest things, let alone shred like a Petrucci.

I gave you names of many drummers that could step right in an not miss a beat in a live show for the fans.

If you'd like, go ahead a name the guitarists that could fill in for John and play his parts perfectly.