Haley, Pioli Smelling Like Herm, Carl

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Dave Lane

So after 2 years with the turd sandwich left by Herm they are supposed to be a championship team. JFC Clayton.

Herm didn't leave a turd of a team. The pieces put in place during his time were the ones who mostly carried us to the playoffs last year.

I don't mind the way Pioli's built the team so far (to some small level), but he hasn't brought anyone here that you can call a playmaker (except for Berry... and that pick was a complete no-brainer).

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Herm didn't leave a turd of a team. The pieces put in place during his time were the ones who mostly carried us to the playoffs last year.

I don't mind the way Pioli's built the team so far (to some small level), but he hasn't brought anyone here that you can call a playmaker (except for Berry... and that pick was a complete no-brainer).

Yes, Herm left a turd of a team. That's what 2-14 teams are. Crappy.

If you're going to give draft credit, give it to Carl. He's the one who alienated Allen... he's the one who got a king's ransom when trading allen. He's the one who makes the draft picks.

Why do people think when Herm arrived he was suddenly 100% in control of our draft process?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Yes, Herm left a turd of a team. That's what 2-14 teams are. Crappy.

If you're going to give draft credit, give it to Carl. He's the one who alienated Allen... he's the one who got a king's ransom when trading allen. He's the one who makes the draft picks.

Why do people think when Herm arrived he was suddenly 100% in control of our draft process?

This was in response to the comment that the team left behind by Herm Edwards was a turd of a team. The personnel left behind during the Herm era, regardless of who gets credit, was really solid ESPECIALLY given the circumstances of the turd of a team Vermeil/Carl left for Herm.

Herm inherited a MUCH shittier situation than Haley/Pioli. A ton more.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

This was in response to the comment that the team left behind by Herm Edwards was a turd of a team. The personnel left behind during the Herm era, regardless of who gets credit, was really solid ESPECIALLY given the circumstances of the turd of a team Vermeil/Carl left for Herm.

Herm inherited a MUCH shittier situation than Haley/Pioli. A ton more.

I don't agree entirely with that though, but your opinion is yours. We had a handful of good players, a handful of decent players, and a goddamn circus side show of practice squad caliber scrubs.

I don't believe teams are defined by simply how many good players they have, but how many BAD players they have. Herm inherited a team with far fewer bad players, but fewer young ascending players.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

We had a handful of good players, a handful of decent players, and a goddamn circus side show of practice squad caliber scrubs.

Here's what Pioli inherited:

Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe
Branden Albert
Brian Waters
Barry Richardson

Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jovan Belcher
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers

That's half of the current starters. HALF.

You can probably add Jon McGraw to that list now, too, since he's going to be a starter.

Players who Herm inherited who were starters in his third year.

Larry Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson

Herm inherited a bunch of shit that had to be replaced.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Here's what Pioli inherited:

Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe
Branden Albert
Brian Waters
Barry Richardson

Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jovan Belcher
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers

That's half of the current starters. HALF.

You can probably add Jon McGraw to that list now, too, since he's going to be a starter.

Players who Herm inherited who were starters in his third year.

Larry Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson

Herm inherited a bunch of shit that had to be replaced.

He didn't control personnel. I have no idea why Chiefs fans think he had 100% control over personnel but he didn't.

Yes, we had talent that had been acquired by the staff. Pretty much all of them save Flowers were underachievers. That's what coaches do.

Herm was our coach, not our GM. I was really clear about this.

All I'm getting out of this is that you think Carl is a better GM than Pioli, but want to credit Herm instead.

Herm didn't coach these players up. The only player he drafted all by himself was Carr. That was his birthday pick.

ALSO, most of those players were acquired in the 3rd year. We don't even fully know what we've gotten from the 2011 draft yet.

Seriously... **** Herman Edwards.

[chiefzilla1501]

Carl barely deserves any credit. That guy is the reason this team fell into the shitter. Nobody's saying anything about Herm deserving credit. We're talking about the Herm era.

But if we're talking credit, Kuharich should get credit for the personnel, and Herm should get credit for forcing the youth movement.

And while Herm doesn't deserve 100% credit for draft picks made during that era, he definitely deserves some. Coaches are very involved with the personnel process. Especially given that Kuharich and Herm were mostly on the same page.

Haley's a far better coach. But I've said for years and years that Herm got a lot of shit he didn't deserve, but that he was easily the best guy to start the process of turning this team around.

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

He didn't control personnel. I have no idea why Chiefs fans think he had 100% control over personnel but he didn't.

Yes, we had talent that had been acquired by the staff. Pretty much all of them save Flowers were underachievers. That's what coaches do.

Herm was our coach, not our GM. I was really clear about this.

All I'm getting out of this is that you think Carl is a better GM than Pioli, but want to credit Herm instead.

Herm didn't coach these players up. The only player he drafted all by himself was Carr. That was his birthday pick.

ALSO, most of those players were acquired in the 3rd year. We don't even fully know what we've gotten from the 2011 draft yet.

Seriously... **** Herman Edwards.

[Easy 6]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

He didn't control personnel. I have no idea why Chiefs fans think he had 100% control over personnel but he didn't.

Its very doubtful many fans thought that, but if herm didnt have atleast a strong hand in drafting, why did he inherit a bunch of crap yet end up leaving us half of the current starters this far along into the new regime?

Count me out of the herm vs. todd debate, it is no debate imo, i'll take haley every single time as a Head Coach and i still believe in most of what he's selling, despite the fact that he HAS proven to be beyond 'meddlesome' with oc's, to this teams detriment.

Give herm his due, this team collected more talent under him in three years than in the preceding eight, you cant say he didnt strongly influence those drafts.

[Ace Gunner]

Originally Posted by Gif Horse

Here's what Pioli inherited:

Jamaal Charles
Dwayne Bowe
Branden Albert
Brian Waters
Barry Richardson

Tamba Hali
Glenn Dorsey
Derrick Johnson
Jovan Belcher
Brandon Carr
Brandon Flowers

That's half of the current starters. HALF.

You can probably add Jon McGraw to that list now, too, since he's going to be a starter.

Players who Herm inherited who were starters in his third year.

Larry Johnson
Tony Gonzalez
Brian Waters
Derrick Johnson

Herm inherited a bunch of shit that had to be replaced.

and so what, you want people to believe this team was good?