Chiefs Haley versus McDaniels - Page 2

SenselessChiefsFan · 11-30-2011, 08:42 AM

For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again.

Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year.

Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel.

In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels.

In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower.

In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris.

2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels.

2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat.

In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ?

In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos.

McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking.

2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th.

Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year.

Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB.

Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down.

However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's.

So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years.

McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin.

I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels.

And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality.

And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.

Micjones · 11-30-2011, 10:42 AM

I'd love to have McDaniels as an Offensive Coordinator.

listopencil · 11-30-2011, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KCChiefsfan88

McDaniels offenses in Denver put up yardage, but I don't think they were necessarily a "great" offense. They were ranked 20th in points scored in 2009 and 19th in points scored in 2010.

This, a thousand times this.

First: Our D bailed out our shitty Offense when we went 6-0.

Second: When our Offense finally picked up as our Defense got worn out, broken down and exposed by lack of talent, we only passed the ball. Lucky for us that everything "clicked" for Kyle Orton when we needed it to, which brings me to...

Third: We never ran the ball well under McD. The Pats were an "effective" running team with McD as the OC. As in with Tom Brady back there the running game opened up just enough to make some plays and put up garbage time yardage.

McD was Shanny Junior without the pedigree or maturity, or the ability to kiss the ass of prima donna "stars" to keep them on the team. Oh yeah. It was wonderful to see my team pass for a shitload of yards but lose game after game because they couldn't do jack shit with the ball when they had to, and hand it back over to a Defense that closely resembled a wet paper towel. **** that noise.

listopencil · 11-30-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'd love to have McDaniels as an Offensive Coordinator.

He's fine as an OC if someone is around to force him to run the ball. He may very well be Mike Martz's love child.

htismaqe · 11-30-2011, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

they're all worthless pieces of shit and not worth writing 15 words about, unless they're curse words...

This is Sensible's passive aggressive streak showing it's face again...

You know that deep down he really wants to post a treatise on why he LOVES McDaniel and thinks that having him and Cassel, together, in KC next year makes him wet with anticipation.

But he knows what kind of dogpile that would be so instead he tries to mask it all with stats and gobbledy-gook...

BoneKrusher · 11-30-2011, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'd love to have McDaniels as an Offensive Coordinator.

i'd be cool with that as well.
especially since Pioli will probably not draft a QB anyway.
plus Orton knows his offense and put up some good numbers with him in Denver.

it's not what i would prefer but it would be better than going 4-5 games w/o scoring a TD.

WhiteWhale · 11-30-2011, 11:08 AM

Haley and Muir got more out of Matt Cassel than McDaniels can get from Sam Bradford.

Think about it.

Minus all his pregame walk through tapes, I'm not sure McDaniels is good OC at all. The rams went from scoring 18 points a game to 12 points a game. The NFC west is a shitty division and it's not like the rams have a ton of different pieces as last season.

**BigMeatballDave** · 11-30-2011, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Micjones

I'd love to have McDaniels as an Offensive Coordinator.

Why? The Rams look awful on offense this season.

**Dave Lane** · 11-30-2011, 12:11 PM

Of Sensiblechiefsfans 5200 posts I believe I have agreed with 3. The opening post is not one of them.

ShowtimeSBMVP · 11-30-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

Why? The Rams look awful on offense this season.

This

FloridaMan88 · 11-30-2011, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

This is Sensible's passive aggressive streak showing it's face again...

You know that deep down he really wants to post a treatise on why he LOVES McDaniel and thinks that having him and Cassel, together, in KC next year makes him wet with anticipation.

But he knows what kind of dogpile that would be so instead he tries to mask it all with stats and gobbledy-gook...

Psychoanalysis by a dumbshit.

Ironic.

**Easy 6** · 11-30-2011, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

Haley and Muir got more out of Matt Cassel than McDaniels can get from Sam Bradford.

Ouch... and theres your answer, folks.

whoman69 · 11-30-2011, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by listopencil

He's fine as an OC if someone is around to force him to run the ball. He may very well be Mike Martz's love child.

You mean he would only run Marshall Faulk 9 times in the Super Bowl too?

listopencil · 11-30-2011, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whoman69

You mean he would only run Marshall Faulk 9 times in the Super Bowl too?

He probably wouldn't run Faulk at all. Flea flicker.

Hammock Parties · 11-30-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SensibleChiefsfan

And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.

You keep repeating this shit while ignoring the fact that McDaniels has done shit in St. Louis with Bradford.

Kyle Orton is not going to magically surrender his ability to throw accurately without McDaniels.

You are full of crap.

DaWolf · 11-30-2011, 01:33 PM

McDaniels drafted Tebow. Tebow is 5-1. McDaniels would have started Tebow week one, which would mean Tebow would be 10-1 at this point, and McDaniels would be the best coach evar!!!!!1

11-30-2011, 08:42 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Haley versus McDaniels For those that think I love Cassel, I don't. I just think that Haley isn't nearly the offensive coordinator that McDaniels is. I think the biggest reason that many on here think that Orton is better is because he had two years with McDaniels while the Chiefs had Haley, then Weis, and now Haley again. Orton and Cassel have both struggled this year. Haley had a great offense in Arizona with Kurt Warner. McDaniels had a great offense with Tom Brady, but he also has had good offenses with Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel....ahem.... Kyle Orton and Matt Cassel. In 2007, Haley's first as a offensive coordinator, there is no comparison. McDaniels had a record setting offense at the top of the league. Haley had the 12th best offense. Winner: McDaniels. Haley might get some credit here since he was in his first year with the Cardinals. But, The Pats set the world on fire and set records and were just so much better, that you have to give the nod to McDaniels. In 2008, Haley had the fourth rated offense. He had Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Breaston. Granted, the running backs weren't great. Edgerin James wasn't quite what he once was and they had Tim Hightower. In 2008, McDaniels had the fifth rated offense. He had Matt Cassel, Randy Moss and Wes Welker. And, believe it or not, the running backs in NE were even MORE underwhelming. Lamont Jordon, Maroney, Sammy Morris. 2008 edge: Despite Arizona ranking one spot higher, it would be foolish not to notice the distinct advantage in talent around Haley. so the edge goes to McDaniels. 2009- Daniels had the 15th best offense. He had Orton, Marshall and Royal. He didn't have much of a running threat. In 2009, Haley had the 25th best offense. He had Matt Cassel, D-Bowe, and Charles. Yeah, he didn't give Charles a ton of time until the end of the season. Who's fault is that? Who is the coach that saw JC on the field every day and still decided to play LJ? In 2010, Haley had Weis as offensive coordinator. The Chiefs were 12th in offense. The Broncos were 13th. The Chiefs had better offensive talent. Jones was still playing well last year, JC was out of this world. They had D-Bowe and Moeaki as well. Luckily, Haley had Weis to know how to use the talent. With Weis, they managed to be one spot higher than the Broncos. McDaniels had Orton, B LLoyd, Eddie Royal. Yet, he managed to get to the 13th ranking. 2011. Finally, a year that Haley can probably claim as better than McDaniels. The Chiefs are 27th in offense. The Rams are 29th. Now, lets look at talent. Matt Cassel versus Sam Bradford. Bradford is the obvious answer. However, a second year guy going into a new system, and an offseason with no training camp. Again, Bradford is the better guy, but overall situation? Haley might have the better overall situation. Cassel and even Palko had been with the Chiefs for a full year. Both McDaniels and Haley have had to have two games played with their backup QB. Jackson is clearly superior to anything that the Chiefs have in the backfield since JC went down. However, look at the talent on the outside and you will see the Chiefs have Bowe, Breaston and Baldwin..... heck, even McCluster would probably be one of the Rams top two WR's. Not kidding. They have Brandon Lloyd and Brandon Gibson. That is their top two WR's. So, even conceding that they have the best QB and RB in St. Louis, you look at the fact that McDaniels came to a brand new team without an offseason and is only 2 spots worse than the team that Haley has been building for three years. McDaniels was a crappy personnel guy. I concede that fact every day of the week. But, when it comes down to x's and o's. He outshines Haley by a huge margin. I think Haley may be the better overall head coach, but from a purely offensive creativity and coordination standpoint. Haley is far inferior to McDaniels. And any comparison between Orton and Cassel has to be based in this reality. And, please understand, I am not a huge Cassel fan. I want him gone. But, this idea that Orton is an upgrade is fools gold. They are both mediocre QB's that have looked good under McDaniels. And, in Cassel's case, at least decent under Weis.
Posts: 5,540

11-30-2011, 10:42 AM	#16
Micjones Whose house? Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: KCMO Casino cash: $10005180	I'd love to have McDaniels as an Offensive Coordinator. __________________ It's like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I could been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong.
Posts: 15,344

11-30-2011, 11:08 AM	#21
WhiteWhale Bring it on Ahab! Join Date: May 2011 Location: Doo-Dah Casino cash: $10015152	Haley and Muir got more out of Matt Cassel than McDaniels can get from Sam Bradford. Think about it. Minus all his pregame walk through tapes, I'm not sure McDaniels is good OC at all. The rams went from scoring 18 points a game to 12 points a game. The NFC west is a shitty division and it's not like the rams have a ton of different pieces as last season.
Posts: 14,861

11-30-2011, 12:11 PM	#23
Dave Lane Space Cadet and Aczabel Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Kanab, UT, USA Casino cash: $9333275 VARSITY	Of Sensiblechiefsfans 5200 posts I believe I have agreed with 3. The opening post is not one of them. __________________ Thanks, Trump for the civics lesson. We are learning so much about RICO, espionage, sedition, impeachment, the 25th Amendment, order of succession, nepotism, separation of powers, 1st Amendment, obstruction of justice, the emoluments clause, conflicts of interest, collusion, sanctions, oligarchs, money laundering and so much more.
Posts: 40,584

11-30-2011, 01:33 PM	#30
DaWolf Cry havoc... Join Date: Aug 2000 Casino cash: $10007725	McDaniels drafted Tebow. Tebow is 5-1. McDaniels would have started Tebow week one, which would mean Tebow would be 10-1 at this point, and McDaniels would be the best coach evar!!!!!1
Posts: 6,798

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