what's with all the Orton isn't the answer talk?

[wutamess]

OK he has the same stats avg as Cassle. BS! My dad and I argue about the Cheifs as if we're Pioli and Haley. I told him 3 weeeks ago, "dude. We finally have our QB." He looked at me like I was crazy and borderline ignored me.

I tried explaining to him we finaly have a qb that can make all of the throws. All he could muster up was he wasn't shit in Denve and he wasn Shit in Chicago. I told him he had good stats lat yar and turned Brandn Lloyd into NFLs #1 wr last year. He wasn't buying it but my point was valid.

I further went to explain that now Orton had something he's NEVER had as far as weapons. Now he has 2 BIG WRs as well as a WR that will stretch the field. Add JC and Moeki coming back next year and I think we can be a top 5 offense with Orton.

I just don't understand why people think he's a fluke ad try to compare him to Cassle when he's HEAD AND SHOULDERS above Cassel in EVERY category. I'll go so far as to say we don't need to draft qb this year if we sign Orton... I'm als thinking with Berry coming back and a O tackle and another stud LB to complement DJ, we're poised for a SUPERBOWL RUN!

[KC_Lee]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

Nope...

But the success failure ratio of First Round QBs isn't that inspiring, and many teams have won without a QB of their own First Round pick...

I think obsession with QB has gone too far, and where the Chiefs are picking in April, the "top QB" may not be there...

Then by all means let's go down the George Allen line of thinking and trade all our draft picks for other team's players.

Lord knows drafting is too much of a risk...

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by the Talking Can

you don't have a ****ing clue about the nfl

you deserve 30 more years of failure

At least I don't talk to 12 ounce pieces of cylindrical metal...

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by KC_Lee

Then by all means let's go down the George Allen line of thinking and trade all our draft picks for other team's players.

Lord knows drafting is too much of a risk...

More precisely, QB is a risky position to Draft - high failure rate.

It doesn't mean I am against taking a QB. I don't want "we are taking a QB" written in stone before the Draft...

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

That's certainly interesting. I would point out that to DEVELOP a YOUNG QB, a good OL is necessary.

Then again, NO got Brees in FA, AZ got Warner in FA, Aaron Rodgers sat for three full years...

but we have to spend the first on a QB, regardless of who that QB is...)

Big Ben, when he started, had 3 PBs on the OL, 2 at WR, and the Bus. That's what you need to start a young QB. Manning had 2 First Rounders at OT when he arrived in Indy.

I guess asking you to see a correlation in the improvement of O-Line play from a craptastic QB like Cassel to a mediocre QB like Orton would achieve anything.

But if you could actually wrap your mind around that, then you could also imagine what kind of improvement would be possible simply by upgrading to a franchise level QB.

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by Starbucks Fan

It is better to have failed once with a QB in the first, then it is to have never failed with a QB in the first.

Sincerely,

Brett Favre
Drew Brees
Tom Brady

[Dexter Manley]

Originally Posted by milkman

I guess asking you to see a correlation in the improvement of O-Line play from a craptastic QB like Cassel to a mediocre QB like Orton would achieve anything.

But if you could actually wrap your mind around that, then you could also imagine what kind of improvement would be possible simply by upgrading to a franchise level QB.

No question.

I just am pointing out that a mid First may not return a "Franchise QB..."

and many teams have won without one...

What round was Trent Green selected?

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

Sincerely,

Brett Favre
Drew Brees
Tom Brady

Favre was picked 33rd, which would be considered the 1st pick in the 2nd round now a days.

Brees was picked 32nd, which would be considered the last pick in the 1st round now.

Brady was picked when the Pats already had a QB, picked in the first, starting.

[Dexter Manley]

So by all means, let's get the next Drew Bledsoe...


.........

or...

maybe not...

[Buckweath]

If anything, Chiefs fans are not obsessed enough with getting a potentially elite QB prospect.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Bobbie

Nope...

But the success failure ratio of First Round QBs isn't that inspiring, and many teams have won without a QB of their own First Round pick...

I think obsession with QB has gone too far, and where the Chiefs are picking in April, the "top QB" may not be there...

The success rate of first round QBs is higher than all other rounds combined.

[Baby Lee]

Originally Posted by Buckweath

If anything, Chiefs fans are not obsessed enough with getting a potentially elite QB prospect.

WTF: That's like saying fans of HIMYM aren't obsessed enough with the identity of Ted's kids' mother. Debating for die-hards can be fun, but demanding a level of obsession from the fanbase regarding something totally out their control is just stupid.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

League Ranks for the last several Super Bowl teams

Passing:

Colts: 2
Saints: 4

Arizona: 2
Pittsburgh: 17

Green Bay: 5
Pittsburgh: 14 (but were 27th in attempts, FWIW)

Average passing rank of Super Bowl teams ~ 7.5, but 3.25 for non-Steeler teams.

[Mr. Laz]

depends on what question you are looking to answer.

imo Orton has always been underrated ... I would of jumped all over trading Cassel to Denver and getting Orton and a draft pick in some 3-way trade back with McDaniels was getting rid of Cutler.

so if the question is 'can Orton be a decent starter to used while you look for a QBotF?" Then Orton probably can be the answer.

if the question is "Is Orton an elite franchise quarterback?" Then no, he's not.

[YourMult]

Cassel is so shitty that he makes Orton look like a viable option.

[DaWolf]

The reason this team hasn't won jack in so many years isn't because we don't draft QB's in the first round, it's because the people who have been running the organization have shown NO ABILITY to actually evaluate the QB position.

What does Carl do? Steve Bono. Elvis Grbac. Before they signed Grbac, they strongly considered signing Heath Shuler, but passed because his foot was injured. He has an NFL MVP sitting on the roster backing up Grbac, who he lets walk. He trades a first rounder for Trent Green, who to me is the epitome of decent but not great QB who was handed Priest Holmes, Tony G, and probably the best offensive line of the decade in the NFL. Then you have Huard, and Croyle. He was reportedly salivating at the idea of drafting Joey Harrington had Detroit not taken him. He may have pounced on Brady Quinn had Cleveland not jumped in front of us to take him. Had he drafted either of those guys in round 1, we still wouldn't be celebrating a championship here.

Before that, this organization famously passes on Marino to take Blackledge.

Hell, this organization is lucky that Len Dawson couldn't cut it with two NFL teams before arriving here.

Would we have really been that much better had we drafted Sanchez or Freeman in 2009? Perhaps, but more likely we'd be complaining about Sanchez (wouldn't have the Jets defense playing behind him, Rex still has a leash on him) or Freeman (badly regressed this year) not justifying getting drafted at 3. Does drafting Jimmy Clausen get us any closer to the promised land? Not likely.

I really don't care how this organization finds a QB, we just need someone who can actually EVALUATE a QB. And we need some good luck for a change. I don't care if the guy is a third round pick or a fifth round pick (Montana, Brady). I don't care if we trade another organization for his rights (Favre). I don't care if he's a street free agent (Warner). I don't care if it's just some guy who is there mid first round because it is a stacked year for QB's (Big Ben) or if he's a guy who free falls to you (Rodgers) or if he's a free agent (Brees). We just need someone in the organization who for once will evaluate that position properly, and who will go out and get that guy. I don't care where it is.

To me, it's not going to cut it if we just draft a guy in the first round. If that guy turns out to be David Carr, or JaMarcus Russell, or Ryan Leaf, or Harrington, or Quinn, or anyone who is no better than Cassel or Orton, then it's not going to cut it. It's not going to cut it to be the Bengals and keep drafting QB's high and hoping they'll lead me to the promised land. That person would need to be fired.

In regards to Orton, I see him much like I see Cassel. 70 starts, and they've both proven they're inconsistent. We've spent three years looking at Cassel and arguing whether or not he'd perform better if he had a better supporting cast. Now we're looking at Orton and wondering if he'd do better with this supporting cast than he did in Chicago or Denver. So to me, it's the same thing. Both guys have proven that they are streaky, and that they don't elevate anyone's games. They can perform well if given all day to throw, which in many cases Orton had against Green Bay. The only reason to go Orton over Cassel is that Orton plays the position more naturally, while Cassel is very mechanical and needs everything to go right on a play to make it work. Hoping that Orton will be any better than what he is is like hoping that the light goes on for Cassel. It probably won't happen. Even if Orton finishes strong this year and comes back next year, the most likely scenario is that next year we'll be complaining about the things that Orton doesn't do well...