Thoughts on Preseason Game #2

[BossChief]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

State your case.

Think Rice still would be miles ahead in stats without Montana and Young? Don't get me wrong Rice with his work ethic would still be in the elite class but he wouldn't be miles ahead of everybody if he had he to deal with QB's like Cassel. He just happened to get lucky having those HOF QB's for the majority of his career(how many WRs get that lucky btw) combined with his work ethic to be the best.

What the **** does that have to do with Fitzgerald?

He seemed to get there without a quarterback.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by BossChief

He seemed to get there without a quarterback.

He did ?? Warner ? Don't get me wrong I believe Fitz would have gotten to that elite level eventually but my whole point is when you have HOF QB's to get your career off to a great start( a la Rice and Fitz) it makes it much easier to get to that Rice/Fitz level of play of which Baldwin DOES NOT have that luxury in Cassel and WHY it will take Baldwin longer IMHO. I along with many others here I believe he has the physical tools to get to that level but he also needs a top tier QB to utilize ALL of his abilities. And top tier QB is not defined as HOF caliber either. But Cassel is not even in the top 20 of this league at this point IMO.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

He did ?? Warner ? Don't get me wrong I believe Fitz would have gotten to that elite level eventually but my whole point is when you have HOF QB's to get your career off to a great start( a la Rice and Fitz) it makes it much easier to get to that Rice/Fitz level of play of which Baldwin DOES NOT have that luxury in Cassel and WHY it will take Baldwin longer IMHO. I along with many others here I believe he has the physical tools to get to that level but he also needs a top tier QB to utilize ALL of his abilities. And top tier QB is not defined as HOF caliber either. But Cassel is not even in the top 20 of this league at this point IMO.

Fitz isn't going in to the HoF because of 2 years of Warner.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Fitz isn't going in to the HoF because of 2 years of Warner.

Just roll with it.

Shrink is an idiot.
This is not new.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Fitz isn't going in to the HoF because of 2 years of Warner.

You missed the whole point. Dane McDouche said it shouldn't take 3yrs to develop but when you have T Jones caused injury setback because you are an insecure rookie and you have Todd Haley to deal with during a strike ridden year for a rookie especially difficult because you don't get honed up on the playbook and no coaching in the OTA's with Cassel as your QB then it will take you awhile to get up to speed.

No one is questioning whether Baldwin has Fitz tools and Fitz type of play in him but it sure helps when you don't have to deal with an injury during a strike ridden year and have a HOF QB throwing to you to get your career off to a great and fast start like FITZ and RICE did !!

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

You missed the whole point. Dane McDouche said it shouldn't take 3yrs to develop but when you have T Jones caused injury setback because you are an insecure rookie and you have Todd Haley to deal with during a strike ridden year for a rookie especially difficult because you don't get honed up on the playbook and no coaching in the OTA's with Cassel as your QB then it will take you awhile to get up to speed.

No one is questioning whether Baldwin has Fitz tools and Fitz type of play in him but it sure helps when you don't have to deal with an injury during a strike ridden year and have a HOF QB throwing to you to get your career off to a great and fast start like FITZ and RICE did !!

Fitzgerald had already been in the league for 4 years when Warner played his first full season as the starter in Arizona.

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by jd1020

Fitzgerald had already been in the league for 4 years when Warner played his first full season as the starter in Arizona.

Wrong. Fitz drafted in 04. Warner signed in 05. Again, Fitz proved his rookie yr he was special and Warner was able to accelerate and expose his greatness from there on out with a little Leinert hiccup along the way. Baldwin does not have that luxury in a QB situation here but I believe he will have his great moments but they just won't be as often as we would like with Cassel at the helm.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Wrong. Fitz drafted in 04. Warner signed in 05. Again, Fitz proved his rookie yr he was special and Warner was able to accelerate and expose his greatness from there on out with a little Leinert hiccup along the way. Baldwin does not have that luxury in a QB situation here but I believe he will have his great moments but they just won't be as often as we would like with Cassel at the helm.

God you are dumb as hell. Warner wasn't the full time starter in Arizona until 08. already.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

You missed the whole point. Dane McDouche said it shouldn't take 3yrs to develop but when you have T Jones caused injury setback because you are an insecure rookie and you have Todd Haley to deal with during a strike ridden year for a rookie especially difficult because you don't get honed up on the playbook and no coaching in the OTA's with Cassel as your QB then it will take you awhile to get up to speed.

No one is questioning whether Baldwin has Fitz tools and Fitz type of play in him but it sure helps when you don't have to deal with an injury during a strike ridden year and have a HOF QB throwing to you to get your career off to a great and fast start like FITZ and RICE did !!

Kurt Warner didn't become the full time starter, you ****ing useless dumbass, until Larry Fitzgerald had already established himself as one of teh elite receivers in the league.

[dj56dt58]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

He did ?? Warner ? Don't get me wrong I believe Fitz would have gotten to that elite level eventually but my whole point is when you have HOF QB's to get your career off to a great start( a la Rice and Fitz) it makes it much easier to get to that Rice/Fitz level of play of which Baldwin DOES NOT have that luxury in Cassel and WHY it will take Baldwin longer IMHO. I along with many others here I believe he has the physical tools to get to that level but he also needs a top tier QB to utilize ALL of his abilities. And top tier QB is not defined as HOF caliber either. But Cassel is not even in the top 20 of this league at this point IMO.

According to the thing they did on Kurt Warner on NFL Network, Fitz was fine with being good and had no desire to be the best..Kurt pushed him to become the best

[Chiefshrink]

Originally Posted by dj56dt58

According to the thing they did on Kurt Warner on NFL Network, Fitz was fine with being good and had no desire to be the best..Kurt pushed him to become the best

Proves my point that Fitz needed a top tier QB to make him better !!

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Chiefshrink

Proves my point that Fitz needed a top tier QB to make him better !!

You're a ****ing moron.

In Fitzgerald's second season, well before Warner became the starter, he caught 103 passes, the most in a single season for 1409 yards and established himself as one of the elite receivers in the league.

Just shut up, you dipshit.

You have never gotten a single ****ing thing right.

Ever.

[jd1020]

Originally Posted by milkman

You're a ****ing moron.

In Fitzgerald's second season, well before Warner became the starter, he caught 103 passes, the most in a single season for 1409 yards and established himself as one of the elite receivers in the league.

Just shut up, you dipshit.

You have never gotten a single ****ing thing right.

Ever.

Fitzgerald has really missed Warner too. He just had, by far, one of his best seasons as a receiver last season averaging 17.6 ypc, compared to his previous best 14.9 with Warner in 08. One of his worst productive years came in 09, with Warner, when he averaged a measly 11.3 ypc, compared to his next worst 12.6 in 10.