ZMA is the shit

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

It essentially says that taking the supplements by themselves had zero effect. And taking the supplements while exercising had a very small effect, but it might be simply because of the exercise.

Actually it reads......

"It might be possible that the effect of zinc supplementation on free testosterone depends on exercise."

SO it might be, or it might not be.

This study is investigating hypogonadism in Korean men aged 40-60. Hypogonadism is a lack of hormones. Specifically in this case, testosterone. It's a little baffling as to how this study could be referenced to support Zinc intake affecting testosterone. All this study shows is that when testosterone levels are low, so are Zinc levels. It doesn't show that Zinc increases testosterone at all. It only describes the inverse relationship. When testosterone levels drop, so do Zinc levels. That's doesn't do any good in proving the opposite though.

This happens a lot. People will reference some silly study, and not bother to actually apply what the study says to the statement they're making.

Apparently you didn't want to quote that study.

Here you go.....

Subjects with normal testosterone group had a significantly higher Zn level compared to low testosterone group.

Normal testosterone is associated with a higher Zn level. Decreased serum testosterone is significantly associated with a high level of Cu and elevated Cu/Zn ratio in hair tissue.

Which is what I have said all along. If you are low in zinc you might also be low in natural test, or vice versa. So yeah, I'm right.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Actually it reads......

"It might be possible that the effect of zinc supplementation on free testosterone depends on exercise."

SO it might be, or it might not be.





Apparently you didn't want to quote that study.

Here you go.....



Which is what I have said all along. If you are low in zinc you might also be low in natural test, or vice versa. So yeah, I'm right.

Might be. Might not be.... OK, but that's not really conclusive is it?

And you are confusing the direction of correlation in the second study. It's saying that normal testosterone is associated with higher Zinc levels. Which is true. The title of the link you posted reads: "Tip 151: Take Zinc and Increase Testosterone Levels..." But that's not what the second study shows at all. The study researched how testosterone levels affected Cu and Zn levels, not how Zn and Cu levels affect testosterone. The difference and direction is important. And besides that, testing Cu and Zn levels in the hair of testosterone deficient old Koreans isn't exactly the best test base for what we're talking about here.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by KC Fish

Might be. Might not be.... OK, but that's not really conclusive is it?

And you are confusing the direction of correlation in the second study. It's saying that normal testosterone is associated with higher Zinc levels. Which is true. The title of the link you posted reads: "Tip 151: Take Zinc and Increase Testosterone Levels..." But that's not what the second study shows at all. The study researched how testosterone levels affected Cu and Zn levels, not how Zn and Cu levels affect testosterone. The difference and direction is important. And besides that, testing Cu and Zn levels in the hair of testosterone deficient old Koreans isn't exactly the best test base for what we're talking about here.

Right.

And my original point I believe, was that if you were low in zinc you could also be low in test, or vice versa. Not that zinc would make you a superman in terms of test levels. But healthy levels of test are in fact related to zinc levels.

[Fish]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

Right.

And my original point I believe, was that if you were low in zinc you could also be low in test, or vice versa. Not that zinc would make you a superman in terms of test levels. But healthy levels of test are in fact related to zinc levels.

The source you used to make your point says in the title "Tip 151: Take Zinc and Increase Testosterone Levels at Rest..." Then it references a study which directly shows that Zinc will not raise testosterone at rest. It's misinformation, that's all. I agree that the levels are related in some ways. But that doesn't show that taking Zinc will raise Testosterone. Some people might read your link and think that to be the case.

Again, my only point was that the majority of people are wasting money on supplements because of the great deal of misinformation on the topic.