Have you ever used steroids, HGH, etc.?

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

I know that it's illegal to take or possess without a doctor's prescription. I know that performance enhancing drugs like steroids and HGH are illegal for junior high, senior high, college, amateur, Olympic and professional athletes.

What else do I not have a clue about?

That they are dangerous. Not really. I mean, aspirin are dangerous and kill more people each year than steroids. Seriously, to say you overstate the dangers involved with them is putting it mildly.

[DaneMcCloud]

Originally Posted by TheGuardian

That they are dangerous. Not really. I mean, aspirin are dangerous and kill more people each year than steroids. Seriously, to say you overstate the dangers involved with them is putting it mildly.

They are dangerous if not used properly. They can most certainly cause organ damage and organ failure.

This is a serious question, not a joke: Why do you believe that anabolic steroids aren't controlled and sold over-the-counter?

[CrazyPhuD]

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

They are dangerous if not used properly. They can most certainly cause organ damage and organ failure.

This is a serious question, not a joke: Why do you believe that anabolic steroids aren't controlled and sold over-the-counter?

Honestly the level of dipshit in this thread has increased exponentially mostly run by internet 'experts' who don't actually know what they're talking about but since they read it on some steroid board they think they do. I could dismiss the purely asinine claims being made lately but honestly it's not worth my time. Frankly after I post here I'll put this shit on thread ignore because if people want to keep talking out their asses about it being safe by all means go right ahead.

Here are the issue with steroid abuse. The first set is ones in all honesty I don't think anyone will argue about...

QUOTE]Anabolic steroid abuse in athletes has been associated with a wide range of adverse conditions, including hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis, gynaecomastia, and psychiatric disturbance[/QUOTE

Hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis....in short issues with your balls. This one is really not rocket science if you add external testosterone then your body is going to stop producing the natural supply. The problem is your balls don't only produce testosterone, they produce other factors too some of which we may not measure well or understand the health implications of stopping production. One that is obvious is that your sperm can get all ****ed up because if your body doesn't produce test it can fool with the production of sperm also. Stopping steroids usually reverses many of these conditions(and people take other drugs to try to restart natural production). But if you keep cycling on and off there is no certainty that the body will always bounce back. Every time you shut it off it might not restart. Short term use probably less of an issue but long term it's all unknown.

gynaecomastia - affectionately known as bitch tits...in short you have too much estrogen which stimulates the growth of breast tissue. There are drugs that can help reduce some of the effects of this(i.e. the anti-estrogens etc). This one is probably the least damaging of the side affects and worst case you can get it removed with surgery.

psychiatric disturbance - otherwise known as roid rage, etc. Steriods can also trigger things like bipolar disorder etc. In short it can **** up your head ask Chris Benoit about this one. The magnitude depends of course on the individual but this is always a real risk.

Frankly I don't think even users are going to argue about any of above issues. They are issues but outside of the last one probably relatively modest to health outside of reproductive health.

But the bigger issue which they are still researching to understand why is the associated risk between steroids and what they call "Left ventricular hypertrophy". While ventricular hypertrophy itself is not a bad thing(it is when the heart gets bigger/stronger and pumps more...other wise known as athletes heart).

However in the case of "Left ventricular hypertrophy" the adding of heart muscle is detrimental to heart health. For whatever reason, most often due to things like hypertension or damage from heart attacks the left ventricular thickens increasing the risk of a host of heart problems. In some cases the LVH can be reversed, in others it cannot.

The exact pathology is unclear at this point but they have done studies on people who have and have not used anabolic steroids and those who have know and show a significantly larger incidence of 'Left ventricular hypertrophy'.

Honestly it's not terribly surprising what could be going on here. Heart hypertrophy is not in itself a bad thing, it helps the heart pump more blood. Both endurance athletes and strength athletes experience it. It is the strengthening of the heart muscle.

For whatever reason the data is showing that people who abuse anabolic steroids don't just have good heart muscle growth but also dysfunctional heart muscle growth. Now is this surprising? Given steroids help stimulate muscle growth it's not surprising they would also help grow the muscle in the heart too. The problem is that extra growth appears to go wrong and actually manifest as LVH. Frankly the fact the the growth goes wrong shouldn't be surprising either. If you're running at 2-3X normal body testosterone level who knows how your body is going to respond to levels that high.

This is the big issue, I don't believed they determined the exact reason this happens in steroids but they can show that LVH occurs significantly more even when you compare people that are exercising at the same levels(just some with steroids and some without).

Again everyone has know about the possible link between steroids and heart damage due to the deaths of NFLs from the 70s-80s with things like premature heart attacks and pro wrestlers too. The difference is they've been able to show now that there is 'bad' heart muscle growth in steroid users.

Steroids can be great at helping you build muscle the problem is they also appear to help the heart add muscle in a dysfunctional way. I suspect it has less to do with steroids and more to due with how much you are using. Use steroids to boost your T levels by a smallish amount there is probably minimal risk. But the more you take and the longer you do it the greater your risk for long term heart damage.

You may not see it today or even 10 years from now but it could show up as an early heart attack at a future point in life. There are pluses to using steroids but lets not pretend they are safe. They help build muscle, but not all muscle they build may be healthy(i.e. the LVH) in you heart. You may not see it today but that risk is always there. You have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Ok I'm out of this thread....

[BigCatDaddy]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

Honestly the level of dipshit in this thread has increased exponentially mostly run by internet 'experts' who don't actually know what they're talking about but since they read it on some steroid board they think they do. I could dismiss the purely asinine claims being made lately but honestly it's not worth my time. Frankly after I post here I'll put this shit on thread ignore because if people want to keep talking out their asses about it being safe by all means go right ahead.

Here are the issue with steroid abuse. The first set is ones in all honesty I don't think anyone will argue about...

QUOTE]Anabolic steroid abuse in athletes has been associated with a wide range of adverse conditions, including hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis, gynaecomastia, and psychiatric disturbance[/QUOTE

Hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis....in short issues with your balls. This one is really not rocket science if you add external testosterone then your body is going to stop producing the natural supply. The problem is your balls don't only produce testosterone, they produce other factors too some of which we may not measure well or understand the health implications of stopping production. One that is obvious is that your sperm can get all ****ed up because if your body doesn't produce test it can fool with the production of sperm also. Stopping steroids usually reverses many of these conditions(and people take other drugs to try to restart natural production). But if you keep cycling on and off there is no certainty that the body will always bounce back. Every time you shut it off it might not restart. Short term use probably less of an issue but long term it's all unknown.

gynaecomastia - affectionately known as bitch tits...in short you have too much estrogen which stimulates the growth of breast tissue. There are drugs that can help reduce some of the effects of this(i.e. the anti-estrogens etc). This one is probably the least damaging of the side affects and worst case you can get it removed with surgery.

psychiatric disturbance - otherwise known as roid rage, etc. Steriods can also trigger things like bipolar disorder etc. In short it can **** up your head ask Chris Benoit about this one. The magnitude depends of course on the individual but this is always a real risk.

Frankly I don't think even users are going to argue about any of above issues. They are issues but outside of the last one probably relatively modest to health outside of reproductive health.

But the bigger issue which they are still researching to understand why is the associated risk between steroids and what they call "Left ventricular hypertrophy". While ventricular hypertrophy itself is not a bad thing(it is when the heart gets bigger/stronger and pumps more...other wise known as athletes heart).

However in the case of "Left ventricular hypertrophy" the adding of heart muscle is detrimental to heart health. For whatever reason, most often due to things like hypertension or damage from heart attacks the left ventricular thickens increasing the risk of a host of heart problems. In some cases the LVH can be reversed, in others it cannot.

The exact pathology is unclear at this point but they have done studies on people who have and have not used anabolic steroids and those who have know and show a significantly larger incidence of 'Left ventricular hypertrophy'.

Honestly it's not terribly surprising what could be going on here. Heart hypertrophy is not in itself a bad thing, it helps the heart pump more blood. Both endurance athletes and strength athletes experience it. It is the strengthening of the heart muscle.

For whatever reason the data is showing that people who abuse anabolic steroids don't just have good heart muscle growth but also dysfunctional heart muscle growth. Now is this surprising? Given steroids help stimulate muscle growth it's not surprising they would also help grow the muscle in the heart too. The problem is that extra growth appears to go wrong and actually manifest as LVH. Frankly the fact the the growth goes wrong shouldn't be surprising either. If you're running at 2-3X normal body testosterone level who knows how your body is going to respond to levels that high.

This is the big issue, I don't believed they determined the exact reason this happens in steroids but they can show that LVH occurs significantly more even when you compare people that are exercising at the same levels(just some with steroids and some without).

Again everyone has know about the possible link between steroids and heart damage due to the deaths of NFLs from the 70s-80s with things like premature heart attacks and pro wrestlers too. The difference is they've been able to show now that there is 'bad' heart muscle growth in steroid users.

Steroids can be great at helping you build muscle the problem is they also appear to help the heart add muscle in a dysfunctional way. I suspect it has less to do with steroids and more to due with how much you are using. Use steroids to boost your T levels by a smallish amount there is probably minimal risk. But the more you take and the longer you do it the greater your risk for long term heart damage.

You may not see it today or even 10 years from now but it could show up as an early heart attack at a future point in life. There are pluses to using steroids but lets not pretend they are safe. They help build muscle, but not all muscle they build may be healthy(i.e. the LVH) in you heart. You may not see it today but that risk is always there. You have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Ok I'm out of this thread....

In case you come back are there any links to body builder deaths? You only site NFL and Pro Wrestlers who also likely abuse a number of substances including Lyle Alzado who was actually using HGH from cadavors instead of the synthetic stuff used today.

[TheGuardian]

Originally Posted by CrazyPhuD

Honestly the level of dipshit in this thread has increased exponentially mostly run by internet 'experts' who don't actually know what they're talking about but since they read it on some steroid board they think they do. I could dismiss the purely asinine claims being made lately but honestly it's not worth my time. Frankly after I post here I'll put this shit on thread ignore because if people want to keep talking out their asses about it being safe by all means go right ahead.

Here are the issue with steroid abuse. The first set is ones in all honesty I don't think anyone will argue about...

QUOTE]Anabolic steroid abuse in athletes has been associated with a wide range of adverse conditions, including hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis, gynaecomastia, and psychiatric disturbance[/QUOTE

Hypogonadism, testicular atrophy, impaired spermatogenesis....in short issues with your balls. This one is really not rocket science if you add external testosterone then your body is going to stop producing the natural supply. The problem is your balls don't only produce testosterone, they produce other factors too some of which we may not measure well or understand the health implications of stopping production. One that is obvious is that your sperm can get all ****ed up because if your body doesn't produce test it can fool with the production of sperm also. Stopping steroids usually reverses many of these conditions(and people take other drugs to try to restart natural production). But if you keep cycling on and off there is no certainty that the body will always bounce back. Every time you shut it off it might not restart. Short term use probably less of an issue but long term it's all unknown.

gynaecomastia - affectionately known as bitch tits...in short you have too much estrogen which stimulates the growth of breast tissue. There are drugs that can help reduce some of the effects of this(i.e. the anti-estrogens etc). This one is probably the least damaging of the side affects and worst case you can get it removed with surgery.

psychiatric disturbance - otherwise known as roid rage, etc. Steriods can also trigger things like bipolar disorder etc. In short it can **** up your head ask Chris Benoit about this one. The magnitude depends of course on the individual but this is always a real risk.

Frankly I don't think even users are going to argue about any of above issues. They are issues but outside of the last one probably relatively modest to health outside of reproductive health.

But the bigger issue which they are still researching to understand why is the associated risk between steroids and what they call "Left ventricular hypertrophy". While ventricular hypertrophy itself is not a bad thing(it is when the heart gets bigger/stronger and pumps more...other wise known as athletes heart).

However in the case of "Left ventricular hypertrophy" the adding of heart muscle is detrimental to heart health. For whatever reason, most often due to things like hypertension or damage from heart attacks the left ventricular thickens increasing the risk of a host of heart problems. In some cases the LVH can be reversed, in others it cannot.

The exact pathology is unclear at this point but they have done studies on people who have and have not used anabolic steroids and those who have know and show a significantly larger incidence of 'Left ventricular hypertrophy'.

Honestly it's not terribly surprising what could be going on here. Heart hypertrophy is not in itself a bad thing, it helps the heart pump more blood. Both endurance athletes and strength athletes experience it. It is the strengthening of the heart muscle.

For whatever reason the data is showing that people who abuse anabolic steroids don't just have good heart muscle growth but also dysfunctional heart muscle growth. Now is this surprising? Given steroids help stimulate muscle growth it's not surprising they would also help grow the muscle in the heart too. The problem is that extra growth appears to go wrong and actually manifest as LVH. Frankly the fact the the growth goes wrong shouldn't be surprising either. If you're running at 2-3X normal body testosterone level who knows how your body is going to respond to levels that high.

This is the big issue, I don't believed they determined the exact reason this happens in steroids but they can show that LVH occurs significantly more even when you compare people that are exercising at the same levels(just some with steroids and some without).

Again everyone has know about the possible link between steroids and heart damage due to the deaths of NFLs from the 70s-80s with things like premature heart attacks and pro wrestlers too. The difference is they've been able to show now that there is 'bad' heart muscle growth in steroid users.

Steroids can be great at helping you build muscle the problem is they also appear to help the heart add muscle in a dysfunctional way. I suspect it has less to do with steroids and more to due with how much you are using. Use steroids to boost your T levels by a smallish amount there is probably minimal risk. But the more you take and the longer you do it the greater your risk for long term heart damage.

You may not see it today or even 10 years from now but it could show up as an early heart attack at a future point in life. There are pluses to using steroids but lets not pretend they are safe. They help build muscle, but not all muscle they build may be healthy(i.e. the LVH) in you heart. You may not see it today but that risk is always there. You have to decide if it's worth it to you.

Ok I'm out of this thread....

It's good that you're out because you just did a copy and paste that was full of ****ing fail.

LVH can be many things. It could be "athletic heart syndrome" which is seen in a lot of athletes that lift heavy, or ask the heart to perform under very hard conditions. Or it could be cardiomyopathy. The only way to know this is to get the measurement done in a pretty consistent basis and/or do things to let the muscle atrophy a bit.

The point is, why do you ****ing care? Even if that is the case, whose body is it? Yours? No. So why do you care? No one can ever answer that question.