****The Official 2019 STL Cardinals Thread****

[BigRedChief]

Cardinals announce 25-man Opening Day roster for the 2019 season.

Spoiler!

The Cardinals today announced their 25-man Opening Day roster that includes four first-time Cardinals and 13 players that were developed within their organization.

PITCHERS (12): 60 – John Brebbia-RHP, 22 – Jack Flaherty-RHP, 53 – John Gant- RHP, 49 – Jordan Hicks-RHP, 43 – Dakota Hudson- RHP, 55 – Dominic Leone-RHP, 59 – Mike Mayers- RHP, 21 – Andrew Miller-LHP, 39 – Miles Mikolas-RHP, 29 – Alex Reyes, RHP, 52 – Michael Wacha-RHP, 50 – Adam Wainwright- RHP;

CATCHERS (2): 4 -Yadier Molina, 32 – Matt Wieters;

INFIELDERS (6): 13 - Matt Carpenter, 12 – Paul DeJong, 46 – Paul Goldschmidt, 34 – Yario Muñoz, 33 – Drew Robinson, 16 – Kolten Wong;

OUTFIELDERS (5): 46 – Harrison Bader, 25 - Dexter Fowler, 38 – José Martínez, 41 – Tyler O'Neill, 23 – Marcell Ozuna;

DISABLED LIST (5): 27 - Brett Cecil (10-day, left hand Carpal Tunnel syndrome), 44 – Luke Gregerson (10-day, right shoulder impingement), 18 – Carlos Martínez (right shoulder cuff strain), 3 - Jedd Gyorko (10-day, right calf strain), 67 - Justin Williams (10-day, right hand 2nd metacarpal fracture).

2019 Opening Day Line up

Spoiler!

Starting lineup
Matt Carpenter 3B
Paul Goldschmidt 1B
Paul DeJong SS
Ozuna LF
Yadier Molina C
Dexter Fowler RF
Kolten Wong 2B
Harrison Bader CF

Won the Central Division. Won the NLDS.

NLDS Playoff roster

Spoiler!

Pitchers (12): Miles Mikolas, Jack Flaherty, Adam Wainwright, Dakota Hudson, Genesis Cabrera, Tyler Webb, Andrew Miller, John Brebbia, Daniel Ponce de Leon, Ryan Helsley, Giovanny Gallegos, Carlos Martinez.

Catchers (2): Yadier Molina, Matt Wieters.

Infielders (6): Paul Goldschmidt, Kolten Wong, Paul DeJong, Matt Carpenter, Tommy Edman, Yairo Munoz.

Outfielders (5): Marcell Ozuna, Harrison Bader, Dexter Fowler, Jose Martinez, Randy Arozarena.

NLDS Playoff Game 1 starting lineup

Spoiler!

1. Dexter Fowler, CF

2. Tommy Edman, 3B

3. Paul Goldschmidt, 1B

4. Marcell Ozuna, LF

5. Yadier Molina, C

6. Paul DeJong, SS

7. Kolten Wong, 2B

8. Harrison Bader, CF

9. Miles Mikolas, P

NLCS Game One Starting lineup

Spoiler!

1. Dexter Fowler, CF

2. Kolten Wong, 2B

3. Paul Goldschmidt, 1B

4. Marcell Ozuna, LF

5. Yadier Molina, C

6. Matt Carpenter 3B

7.Tommy Edmond RF

8. Paul DeJong, SS

9. Miles Mikolas P

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Fangraphs just updated their data with pitch framing. Yadi gained ten wins to his WAR and is now the greatest defensive catcher ever by their metrics by a comfortable margin.

I think he just made the HOF

Just last year we had the first and probably only bench clearing fubar over pitch framing. Molina's so good that a Manager actually complained to an umpire that Molinas pitch framing was too good. That actually happened. I think people in the future will think that’s an urban legend.

[MarkDavis'Haircut]

Molina better be in the HOF.

Signed a Pirates fan.

[George Liquor]

Originally Posted by Carr4MVP

Molina better be in the HOF.

Signed a Pirates fan.

No way he isn't short of a PED bust or getting Pete Rose'd

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Fangraphs just updated their data with pitch framing. Yadi gained ten wins to his WAR and is now the greatest defensive catcher ever by their metrics by a comfortable margin.

I think he just made the HOF

But they didn't add anything to anyone who played prior to 2008. Their data can't go back any further than that.

So yeah, Yadi's defensive runs above average spiked way ahead of some guys like Carter and Boone, but that's because Carter and Boone didn't get any adjustment at all. Pudge only got a small one for his waning years and he's still not too far behind Molina after Molina got essentially a 150 run kicker; nearly doubled his career numbers.

I think this does a lot to contextualize things going forward and will help provide a more balanced playing field for catchers in the future. But I'm not sure what use it gives us historically if it doesn't provide the same adjustments for players who played prior to 2008.

[DJ's left nut]

So I was kinda thinking out loud a bit this morning and was directed to Ozzie Smith as an obvious HoF 'peak defense, tolerable offense' HoF player. And my immediate reaction was to say "yeah, that seems about right"

But then I thought on it a little more and frankly, Ozzie's offense, though paltry and ineffective by today's standards, was actually pretty decent for the bulk of his career given his era. He made a ton of contact, stole bases and scored runs. He was an above average offensive player who was good at a style of game unique to the era. Moreover, Ozzie set the standard for defense at ANY position and I don't think he's been met since. I believe Ozzie Smith was the single greatest defensive player in baseball history.

Molina's offense for the majority of his career has been somewhat in line with the style at the time but I don't believe it's been as valuable to this era as Ozzies was to his era. Moreover, while Yadi may be among the best defensive catchers ever, I don't believe he is head and shoulders above a handful of contenders (as Ozzie is) nor do I believe he ranks with Ozzie as a purely transformational defensive player.

So by that review, I'd say he's the same kind of player and a similar analysis as Ozzie Smith...but not quite as good. Okay, so lets use the transitive property here. If 80% of Ozzie Smith = Yadier Molina, what's 80% of Ozzie Smith in a historic context?

Well damn...that's really really easy. That's Omar Vizquel.

Omar has 11 gold gloves, was the peak defender of his era, could be a complementary offensive player on a championship caliber ballclub, was a great leader and consummate professional. He's remarkably comparable to Molina if you're willing to consider across positions. And Omar is PROBABLY gonna make the Hall. It's gonna take some time, but he'll probably get there.

But it's not exactly a cinch. Even after this adjustment, Yadi remains firmly in the 'will probably get there after some effort' camp, IMO. And I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion (I think he should go in after maybe 2-3 years; not the 6-8 it could well take), but when you see what the voters are doing, I think that's probably what will happen.

[O.city]

Off topic a little , but Ozzie was actually one of my first words as a baby. Dad's always been a bit of an obsessed cardinal fan so it was pretty natural.

He has a lot of connections at KMOX so we used to go sit in the KMOX box when I was tiny and theyd sit me on the counter to watch Ozzie.

We always went to a weekend series for my bday and i'd get to take a couple friends. We'd go out and eat at his restaurant. Sucks that it's not there anymore and I have no clue if the food was actually good.

[Marcellus]

Cards are close to an extension with Goldschmidt on an extension for around 5 yrs $110MM.

Doesn't sound too bad really.

On a bizarre note, Fowler homered 2 times today and Ozuna had a HR.

[O.city]

Paul Goldschmidt and #cardinals closing in on five-year extension worth around $130 million, according to source. @Ken_Rosenthal had sides were close.

— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) March 21, 2019

[Jewish Rabbi]

DJ meltdown in 3...2...1...

[Megatron96]

So I'm new to CP, and I just found this thread. As a lifetime Cards fan (dad took me to my first game 45 years ago) I was wondering:

How do we feel about the Goldy signing (here in AZ everyone calls him Goldy), is he enough to get us over the hump? Also, what's our starting rotation looking like at this point? Realistically what are our chances of doing anything in the playoffs?

Oh, and Yady is HOFer for sure. The best defensive catcher in my lifetime.

[O.city]

The worry is that you're paying for his decline years, while Arizona got the best of him.

[Marcellus]

Originally Posted by O.city

Paul Goldschmidt and #cardinals closing in on five-year extension worth around $130 million, according to source. @Ken_Rosenthal had sides were close.

— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) March 21, 2019

Meh, I liked it much better at $110MM.

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

So I was kinda thinking out loud a bit this morning and was directed to Ozzie Smith as an obvious HoF 'peak defense, tolerable offense' HoF player. And my immediate reaction was to say "yeah, that seems about right"

But then I thought on it a little more and frankly, Ozzie's offense, though paltry and ineffective by today's standards, was actually pretty decent for the bulk of his career given his era. He made a ton of contact, stole bases and scored runs. He was an above average offensive player who was good at a style of game unique to the era. Moreover, Ozzie set the standard for defense at ANY position and I don't think he's been met since. I believe Ozzie Smith was the single greatest defensive player in baseball history.

Molina's offense for the majority of his career has been somewhat in line with the style at the time but I don't believe it's been as valuable to this era as Ozzies was to his era. Moreover, while Yadi may be among the best defensive catchers ever, I don't believe he is head and shoulders above a handful of contenders (as Ozzie is) nor do I believe he ranks with Ozzie as a purely transformational defensive player.

So by that review, I'd say he's the same kind of player and a similar analysis as Ozzie Smith...but not quite as good. Okay, so lets use the transitive property here. If 80% of Ozzie Smith = Yadier Molina, what's 80% of Ozzie Smith in a historic context?

Well damn...that's really really easy. That's Omar Vizquel.

Omar has 11 gold gloves, was the peak defender of his era, could be a complementary offensive player on a championship caliber ballclub, was a great leader and consummate professional. He's remarkably comparable to Molina if you're willing to consider across positions. And Omar is PROBABLY gonna make the Hall. It's gonna take some time, but he'll probably get there.

But it's not exactly a cinch. Even after this adjustment, Yadi remains firmly in the 'will probably get there after some effort' camp, IMO. And I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion (I think he should go in after maybe 2-3 years; not the 6-8 it could well take), but when you see what the voters are doing, I think that's probably what will happen.

And TLR dumped Ozzie for Royce Clayton

[George Liquor]

Originally Posted by O.city

The worry is that you're paying for his decline years, while Arizona got the best of him.

We the Angels now!

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

The worry is that you're paying for his decline years, while Arizona got the best of him.

Which was always the reason I hated this trade when it was made. I knew they were pot committed and I knew that would be their 'splash' - trying to build around a defensively limited and aging slugger.

It just doesn't work out well for teams. You don't build your team around 1b on the wrong side of 30, it simply doesn't work.