Explain to me why we need to give Herm more time

[Dave Lane]

After seeing my worst fears come true in Herm with the Jetsification of the Chiefs (a top 5 draft pick) and the destruction of a team. I wonder in this microwave world of instant gratification how is it we cling to the notion 2 years doesn't set a trend especially giving his previous body of work. So I thought well surely 2 years must be handed out like candy in the past to any head coach and then it occurred to me to check the Chiefs history to confirm this.

Chiefs Head Coaches with shortest tenures:

Tom Bettis - 1977
Frank Gansz - 1987-1988
Gunther Cunningham - 1999-2000
Paul Wiggin - 1975-1977
John Mackovic - 1983-1986

Thats half of the Chiefs Head Coaches in the history of this team. 3 of them are 2 years or less. So in the present world why not cut ties with Herm. Actually excluding Herm 33% of Chiefs coaches have had a tenure of 2 years or less. And yes I know Bettis is a bad choice. Still 2 years of Herm like performance has cost coaches their jobs in the past.

Dave

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

Yeah...and under what form of reality is that NOT better? If another coach could get this exact team to 7-9, then Herm isn't getting the most out of this team...which means he's a problem.

LOL

Didn't we just get done bitching about the Chiefs having a mediocre record?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by GOATSE

LOL

Didn't we just get done bitching about the Chiefs having a mediocre record?

Some people feel better about themselves and the team when they go 7-9 but are in "contention" the whole year. I hate that shit, I don't wanna sneak in the playoffs and get pelted.

You know what the worst thing that happened to this franchise is? The Steelers a couple years ago that actually won the bowl as a 6 seed....now the Chiefs hold onto it like they can do it even though it's an extreme long shot.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by GOATSE

LOL

Didn't we just get done bitching about the Chiefs having a mediocre record?

who's "we"? If the talent is a 7-9 team...then a solid coach gets them there. A bad coach ensures they underperform. A great coach squeezes them to 8-8 or 9-7.

[FAX]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Ok what do you want to be done? Even if the best coach and personnel guy in the world had taken this job...the team was and still is old as hell, you can only do so much...

I still think some fans lack this understanding, when you get in this spot you will have a couple really bad years. No one competes while rebuilding.

I think Herms idea in theory is right, I just don't think he's the right guy to do it. You can have the right idea all you want still doesn't mean you'll get it right.

I know the point was delicate, Mr. Mecca. Perhaps too much so. Let me try again.

Let's say you're a tour guide and you don't get paid until the tour is over. So you take your group downtown to see the fancy buildings. Then, as you're discussing the finer points of neo-classical architecture, you notice that one of the buildings is collapsing and about to fall on your customers. Realizing that if it does so, your money will be buried under 5000 tons of brick and steel and you'll be spending the night giving statements at the police station and picking body parts off your suit.

Do you take an action? Even more to the point, do you come out the next day and say ... you know, we knew all along that was a possibility and decided to let them stand there anyhow.

FAX

[Mecca]

That team....doesn't have 7-9 talent......it has 4-12 5-11 talent.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by dallaschiefsfan

who's "we"? If the talent is a 7-9 team...then a solid coach gets them there. A bad coach ensures they underperform. A great coach squeezes them to 8-8 or 9-7.

It's irrelevant, anyway. This team doesn't have the talent to win 7 games. They are what they are.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by FAX

I know the point was delicate, Mr. Mecca. Perhaps too much so. Let me try again.

Let's say you're a tour guide and you don't get paid until the tour is over. So you take your group downtown to see the fancy buildings. Then, as you're discussing the finer points of neo-classical architecture, you notice that one of the buildings is collapsing and about to fall on your customers. Realizing that if it does so, your money will be buried under 5000 tons of brick and steel and you'll be spending the night giving statements at the police station and picking body parts off your suit.

Do you take an action? Even more to the point, do you come out the next day and say ... you know, we knew all along that was a possibility and decided to let them stand there anyhow.

FAX

Like I said though...what do you expect them to do? Numerous teams go into years fully knowing they may be bad that year and maybe even the next couple of years.

[dallaschiefsfan]

[QUOTE=Mecca]Some people feel better about themselves and the team when they go 7-9 but are in "contention" the whole year. I hate that shit, I don't wanna sneak in the playoffs and get pelted.

You know what the worst thing that happened to this franchise is? The Steelers a couple years ago that actually won the bowl as a 6 seed....now the Chiefs hold onto it like they can do it even though it's an extreme long shot.[/QUOTED]

While I might agree with your larger point...this thread is about why Herm doesn't deserve another year. If this team's talent could yield a 7-9 record (regardless of whether that medicore sh** pisses you off or not), than a coach that can't get it there should be canned.

[Mecca]

I don't think Herm is a very good coach either, but at the same time I don't think this team would be any good even with a great coach.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Ok what do you want to be done? Even if the best coach and personnel guy in the world had taken this job...the team was and still is old as hell, you can only do so much...

I still think some fans lack this understanding, when you get in this spot you will have a couple really bad years. No one competes while rebuilding.

I think Herms idea in theory is right, I just don't think he's the right guy to do it. You can have the right idea all you want still doesn't mean you'll get it right.

If I took this job, and if I'm spewing that I am wanting to do a rebuilding mode, then I damn well better do it.

And rebuilding isn't exactly having all of your 30 year old guys as your starting offensive linemen, along with a 34 year old career back-up Caption Checkdown and his wobbly duck. I should also point out that for whatever reason, Herm had Holmes over Kolby.

Sorry, his theory isn't right, especially when I just stated the obvious.

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't think Herm is a very good coach either, but at the same time I don't think this team would be any good even with a great coach.

Well...on the former point we agree...on the latter, we disagree. I don't think the talent on this team is close to championship level at all...but I don't believe their talent should yield a 4-12 record...especially in this division.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Coach

If I took this job, and if I'm spewing that I am wanting to do a rebuilding mode, then I damn well better do it.

And rebuilding isn't exactly having all of your 30 year old guys as your starting offensive linemen, along with a 34 year old career back-up Caption Checkdown and his wobbly duck. I should also point out that for whatever reason, Herm had Holmes over Kolby.

Sorry, his theory isn't right, especially when I just stated the obvious.

Well he's dealing with Carl Peterson who doesn't want to rebuild at all.....this team tried to do a halfass rebuild because Peterson doesn't want a full one...

And this is what we got....

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I don't think Herm is a very good coach either, but at the same time I don't think this team would be any good even with a great coach.

Disagree. Buffalo was predicted to finish 4th in their conference, but Juaron did a hell of a job there, despite with the QB issues.

I can think of at least 3 games that the Chiefs COULD have won the game, have it not been for piss-poor coaching.

The Broncos game @ Arrowhead. Jesus, getting whipped by their JV squad was a piss-poor preperation by the coaching staff.

The Colts game @ Indy. Yes, I know the Colts weren't 100% in all areas, and we caught them when Manning was struggling terribly. But it was 10-10 and the game was there for the taking.

The Raiders game @ Arrowhead. Need I say more?

[chiefbowe82]

I can't believe how much younger we're getting.
Croyle-YOUNG
Johnson YOUNG Smith YOUNG
FB YOUNG probably a new YOUNG one
WR-YOUNG Bowe
WR-YOUNG FA or DRAFT?
TE-Gonzo
LT-YOUNG 1st round
LG-MIDDLE AGED FA
C-OLD AS DIRT
RG-Waters
RT-middled aged
DE-YOUNG Allen
DT-YOUNG TURK
DT-YOUNG TANK
DE-YOUNG HALI
OLB-YOUNG JOHNSON
MLB-Mid Aged
OLB-Edwards OLD
FS-YOUNG Page
SS-YOUNG Pollard
CB-Law/Surtain OLD
CB-YOUNG Brack?
P-YOUNG Colquitt
K-YOUNG Rayner? Medlock? FA?
LS-Darche Younger than gammon
Could be our starters next season?

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by Coach

Disagree. Buffalo was predicted to finish 4th in their conference, but Juaron did a hell of a job there, despite with the QB issues.

I can think of at least 3 games that the Chiefs COULD have won the game, have it not been for piss-poor coaching.

The Broncos game @ Arrowhead. Jesus, getting whipped by their JV squad was a piss-poor preperation by the coaching staff.

The Colts game @ Indy. Yes, I know the Colts weren't 100% in all areas, and we caught them when Manning was struggling terribly. But it was 10-10 and the game was there for the taking.

The Raiders game @ Arrowhead. Need I say more?

Buffalo has more talent than we do........even with their 15 guys on IR. They have a lot more when their team is healthy, just no one really notices.