Evaluate the Defense Game #1

[BryanBusby]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

Ah, nobody said he was 'good'

Maybe settle the **** down?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BryanBusby

Ah, nobody said he was 'good'

Maybe settle the **** down?

Maybe grow a pair and try to respond or just stay home.

It's a discussion board - you paying for my keystrokes, sweetheart?

[Sassy Squatch]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

Didn't I say "fair or not?" When did I ever say Clark wasn't bad? I thought he was pretty lousy. Just like the rest of the big guns on defense. Fuller, Mathieu, Hitchens, Jones. All lousy in my opinion. Just seems like you've got a particular hard on for Clark.

Bright side is the cheaper role guys like Breeland, Wilson, and Okafor played well enough that if the guys we're paying (or plan to pay) the big bucks to actually start to play up to their talents, we might not be DOA.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Didn't I say "fair or not?" When did I ever say Clark wasn't bad? I thought he was pretty lousy. Just like the rest of the big guns on defense. Fuller, Mathieu, Hitchens, Jones. All lousy in my opinion. Just seems like you've got a particular hard on for Clark.

Bright side is the cheaper role guys like Breeland, Wilson, and Okafor played well enough that if the guys we're paying (or plan to pay) the big bucks to actually start to play up to their talents, we might not be DOA.

"Overly" is a judgment. You can't say "overly critical" and then "fair or not".

Using 'overly' says it's not fair - full stop. It's one of those "Everything that comes before the 'but' is bullshit" sorts of things. Especially when your post effectively starts with "just ignore him, he's being a bitchy schoolgirl over Clark..."

No, I'm really not. I think Veach overpaid in terms of cap and capital. I've said that. I've also said that I think he can be a very good player here, his attitude may be just what we needed as part of the overhaul and that there's a clear path to this being a good acquisition.

And in his first shot, against a bad offense in front of a tepid crowd with an entire half where he got to go after a green QB protected by a 3rd stringer, he did nothing. That's no bueno and fair to point out.

[dlphg9]

Originally Posted by Superturtle

Didn't I say "fair or not?" When did I ever say Clark wasn't bad? I thought he was pretty lousy. Just like the rest of the big guns on defense. Fuller, Mathieu, Hitchens, Jones. All lousy in my opinion. Just seems like you've got a particular hard on for Clark.

Bright side is the cheaper role guys like Breeland, Wilson, and Okafor played well enough that if the guys we're paying (or plan to pay) the big bucks to actually start to play up to their talents, we might not be DOA.

Fuller Mathieu Hitchens and Jones played better than Clark did. Also if you add up what we are paying those 1st four players it equals $26 mil per year and Clark is making $21 mil per year. I guess you should expect a little more out of Clark considering he's making 8 million a year more than Fuller Hitchens and Jones combined.

[WhiteWhale]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Clark sucked yesterday.

I don't have to be 'overly critical' of anything to point out that fact. You can come up with reasons for it if you'd like, but he was bad yesterday.

And those of you who have just ignored anything else this team does because they have Mahomes now so everything must be wine and roses are going to continue to refuse to critically evaluate that decision on its own merits.

Do you truly think Clark did anything yesterday to justify the cost in picks and cap? Was he even the 2nd best DE on his own team yesterday? What did he do at any point to suggest he was an impact player?

You can make an ad hominem out of this if you want, that's fine - but it's on you. You're the one refusing to examine what was in front of you, not me. When he plays well I'll absolutely acknowledge it.

He played like shit yesterday and I said that BEFORE any of the post-mortems came in. He was getting handled 1v1 by 3rd string OTs and TEs. "But the heat!!!!"

Fine - it was hot. But he was bad. If you can't acknowledge that then I don't know what else to say.

KC brought in two 'impact' defenders in the off-season, and neither of them made an impact.

I'm not going to over-react here because 'one game', but you didn't notice them unless you were specifically watching for them. They didn't stand out at all. For Clark that's bad, because they had scrubs playing tackle. Life should have been much harder for the QB.

Jones was getting good penetration in the 1st quarter, but after that? Blah.

Back up tackles and a back up QB with Chris Conley as their #1 WR and they shredded our guys. Thank god we have this otherworldly offense. We're gonna need it.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

KC brought in two 'impact' defenders in the off-season, and neither of them made an impact.

I'm not going to over-react here because 'one game', but you didn't notice them unless you were specifically watching for them. They didn't stand out at all. For Clark that's bad, because they had scrubs playing tackle. Life should have been much harder for the QB.

Jones was getting good penetration in the 1st quarter, but after that? Blah.

Back up tackles and a back up QB with Chris Conley as their #1 WR and they shredded our guys. Thank god we have this otherworldly offense. We're gonna need it.

I'm at the point where in today's NFL on defense, you've gotta have 11 good solid players. Especially if you have some guys who are gonna make impacts, you can't have holes anywhere.

Teams are too smart now and you just can't trot out Charvarious Ward's.

This front office has gone into 2 straight seasons with shit and ass at CB after trading away a troubled dude that was pretty good at it. If they can't get this figure out, well, IMO, they've had enough rope to hang themselves with on the matter.

[tmax63]

Originally Posted by WhiteWhale

KC brought in two 'impact' defenders in the off-season, and neither of them made an impact.

I'm not going to over-react here because 'one game', but you didn't notice them unless you were specifically watching for them. They didn't stand out at all. For Clark that's bad, because they had scrubs playing tackle. Life should have been much harder for the QB.

Jones was getting good penetration in the 1st quarter, but after that? Blah.

Back up tackles and a back up QB with Chris Conley as their #1 WR and they shredded our guys. Thank god we have this otherworldly offense. We're gonna need it.

You all act like the D has been together for 5 yrs like they were under grandpa Bob. This was the 1st game with new coaches, scheme, and 7 new starters. They have played together about 4 drives in the preseason. They prepared for a deeper throwing not real mobile QB and ended up playing a check-down king that made AS envious. I'll take up 24 with 10 minutes to play every time. Lots of room for improvement, hell yes. Is it time to worry because Pittsburgh really sucks this year without their PITA WR and RB?
Lets see some more games before the Chiefs acknowledge there's no stopping NE and they should cancel the rest of the season and give the Lombardi to them now.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

No matter what anyone post, DJ- you think the D. sucked yesterday. You are viewing them with the most critical glasses possible and nothing anyone can say will change your mind. The Jags only had 13 points until late in the game when it was over. I will take that all year.

If Clark corals that batted pass for the Pick 6- it would have been an even bigger blowout than it was.

The Jags were never a threat to win against this Defense or Offense- that is the bottom line.

One could argue that you are the complete opposite. The bottom line is the bottom line.

A 6th rd rookie in his first NFL game tore our assholes apart. “But wait it was only short passes!” Well yes it was. That’s what Brady does so well and he’s our biggest (and only) competition. So what does that tell you?

The Chiefs offense scored every possession yesterday, but that isn’t sustainable against the best defenses in the league. We didn’t do that against the Broncos, Patriots 2X, Ravens, etc.

I absolutely hate it that Pat has the weight of the world on his shoulders to will this goddamn team to the Super Bowl without seemingly any help from the defense.

Ask Aaron Rodgers what that’s like. It’s happened to him for the last 9 years.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

One could argue that you are the complete opposite. The bottom line is the bottom line.

A 6th rd rookie in his first NFL game tore our assholes apart. “But wait it was only short passes!” Well yes it was. That’s what Brady does so well and he’s our biggest (and only) competition. So what does that tell you?

The Chiefs offense scored every possession yesterday, but that isn’t sustainable against the best defenses in the league. We didn’t do that against the Broncos, Patriots 2X, Ravens, etc.

I absolutely hate it that Pat has the weight of the world on his shoulders to will this goddamn team to the Super Bowl without seemingly any help from the defense.

Ask Aaron Rodgers what that’s like. It’s happened to him for the last 9 years.

They didn't last year, but are we sure they won't this year? I mean, ****, that defense will probably be one of the top 2 or 3 in the league this year and we just ran roughshod thru them.

[Halfcan]

[QUOTE=RunKC;14436415]One could argue that you are the complete opposite. The bottom line is the bottom line.

A 6th rd rookie in his first NFL game tore our assholes apart. “But wait it was only short passes!” Well yes it was. That’s what Brady does so well and he’s our biggest (and only) competition. So what does that tell you?

The Chiefs offense scored every possession yesterday, but that isn’t sustainable against the best defenses in the league. We didn’t do that against the Broncos, Patriots 2X, Ravens, etc.

I absolutely hate it that Pat has the weight of the world on his shoulders to will this.



The defense held them to 13 points until the outcome was pretty much decided. It created 2 turnovers and held their stud rusher to 66 yards and under 100 with a fumble. The Jags piled up some garbage yards but were never a threat to win.

I am not being a homer- just stating positive things they did, but I know that goes against the narrative that the D. still sucks.

I guess my expectations were much lower since it was the First game with several new players, playing in a new system under a New coordinator- on the road in the heat.

I highly doubt this is the High Watermark for this defense and they are only going to get worse.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Halfcan

The defense held them to 13 points until the outcome was pretty much decided. It created 2 turnovers and held their stud rusher to 66 yards and under 100 with a fumble. The Jags piled up some garbage yards but were never a threat to win.

I am not being a homer- just stating positive things they did, but I know that goes against the narrative that the D. still sucks.

I guess my expectations were much lower since it was the First game with several new players, playing in a new system under a New coordinator- on the road in the heat.

I highly doubt this is the High Watermark for this defense and they are only going to get worse.

Leonard Fournette is a 'stud rusher' in the same sense that Ward is a 'stud Corner'.

Dude averages 3.7 YPC for his career. He was at 3.3 last year and was on his way to healthy scratch territory. Any sort of in-depth analysis of the Jags offense last season was that it was less efficient and less productive with him on the field than it was with TJ Yeldon.

Fournette ain't good, man.

The Jags were never a threat to win. They shouldn't have been - the Chiefs are MUCH better than they are. And winning in a cakewalk with a 1-footed QB and your top offensive weapon injured makes that clear. Especially when the pass-rush DIDN'T perform.

But the Chiefs are a contender and when the SB is your bar to clear, everything should come with heightened importance. The Cardinals can go out there and tie the Lions and claim a moral victory because their rookie QB didn't puke on his shoes. The Colts can go out there with Brissett, push the Chargers to OT and be pleased with their performance. Because neither of those squads are relevant.

The Chiefs...well they need to see where they were struggling and ignoring some of the issues from yesterday because they hung a W doesn't help there.

[TwistedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Leonard Fournette is a 'stud rusher' in the same sense that Ward is a 'stud Corner'.

Do you think many NFL running backs would've looked like world beaters if Blake Bortles had been their QB?

We recognize that the Chiefs can rotate any running back in with some success given their weapons and coaching, so it only seems natural that Fournette should actually get some uplift given the abysmal supporting cast.

I would take Fournette over Williams and McCoy on an apples-to-apples talent basis without hesitation.

[Lzen]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Leonard Fournette is a 'stud rusher' in the same sense that Ward is a 'stud Corner'.

Dude averages 3.7 YPC for his career. He was at 3.3 last year and was on his way to healthy scratch territory. Any sort of in-depth analysis of the Jags offense last season was that it was less efficient and less productive with him on the field than it was with TJ Yeldon.

Fournette ain't good, man.

The Jags were never a threat to win. They shouldn't have been - the Chiefs are MUCH better than they are. And winning in a cakewalk with a 1-footed QB and your top offensive weapon injured makes that clear. Especially when the pass-rush DIDN'T perform.

But the Chiefs are a contender and when the SB is your bar to clear, everything should come with heightened importance. The Cardinals can go out there and tie the Lions and claim a moral victory because their rookie QB didn't puke on his shoes. The Colts can go out there with Brissett, push the Chargers to OT and be pleased with their performance. Because neither of those squads are relevant.

The Chiefs...well they need to see where they were struggling and ignoring some of the issues from yesterday because they hung a W doesn't help there.

I think you're being a little dishonest. First, he has only played 2 seasons prior to this year and everyone knows about his struggles last year. I don't think Fournettee is bad. Actually, he had a few really good games in his rookie year. And for that the players voted him the 58th best player in the league. So let's not act as if he's some kind of 4th stringer.