Connor Barwin planning a visit with the Chiefs

[KCrockaholic]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Mistakenly posted in another thread, but Barwin is a major reach. A one year player at DE after switching from TE in a weak conference equates into a huge project.

As I stated elsewhere, he doesn't give you anything over what the Chiefs already have in Brian Johnston, who was a one man wrecking crew and athletic freak of nature in small college at the DE spot.

Barwin would be a complete waste of a pick in my opinion.

I agree with most of this except the bold part. Johnston was just an overhyped guy because he was a white defensive end and we all wished that he could become the next Jared Allen. Johnston really didnt even do anything special in college like putting up big numbers or anything for a division II player. Barwin is a pure athlete. Not really a DE/LB/TE but hes a guy that can help out in a number of ways whether its defense or offense. Johnston cant offer that. Taking Barwin would be a very high risk. A reach? depends on where we get him. If we trade back up into the 2nd round and get him there...that would be a good deal. He wont be a waste of a pick because he offers so much. Yes he may be one of the most raw players in this draft, but I think the reward would be worth the risk.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by kcrockaholic4life

I agree with most of this except the bold part. Johnston was just an overhyped guy because he was a white defensive end and we all wished that he could become the next Jared Allen. Johnston really didnt even do anything special in college like putting up big numbers or anything for a division II player. Barwin is a pure athlete. Not really a DE/LB/TE but hes a guy that can help out in a number of ways whether its defense or offense. Johnston cant offer that. Taking Barwin would be a very high risk. A reach? depends on where we get him. If we trade back up into the 2nd round and get him there...that would be a good deal. He wont be a waste of a pick because he offers so much. Yes he may be one of the most raw players in this draft, but I think the reward would be worth the risk.

Johnston was a pure athlete. His measurables were off the chart for a guy of his size and he also was second in the country in stops behind the line of scrimmage. Dude was a beast in the I-AA. To wit:

"Johnston played very well in the 2008 Hula Bowl, one of the nation’s better College Football All-Star games. He didn't get an invitation to the 2008 NFL Scouting Combine, but on 8 March 2008 he dazzled scouts at his Pro Day workout. Measuring in at 6-foot-5, 274 pounds, Johnston ran his first 40-yard dash in an eye-popping 4.66 seconds. His slowest time of the day was 4.70, which is still faster than Johnston’s best time a year ago. Johnston’s 40-yard dash time during his pro day, would have been the fourth best at the recent NFL Scouting Combine for defensive ends, and the best for any lineman weighing more than 260 pounds.

His most impressive stat from the 40-yard dash came with a very strong 1.51-second time through the first 10 yards, an important time with regards to a players quickness. By comparison, Johnston's 10-yard split was the same as Arkansas running back Darren McFadden turned in at the Combine earlier this year.

He recorded an impressive 35-inch vertical leap as well, which would have ranked second among defensive linemen at the NFL Scouting Combine – and best for a player of his size.

The most impressive result overall, however, may have been Johnston’s time in the 20-yard shuttle. He turned in a 4.18-second time, which is better than any lineman at the NFL’s Scouting Combine. In fact, the 4.18-second time was faster than any running back at the event – with Illinois’ Rashard Mendenhall the only back to match that time.

A 6.96-second time in the 3-cone, was also impressive, and would rank him third if he would have went to the combine."

Tell me what a guy like Barwin gives you over that? Especially considering that he's only played the DE for one single season in a mid-major conference. Nope. Nothing more than Johnston, and at this point, maybe a lot less based on his lack of experience and smaller size.

[htismaqe]

I don't believe Brian Johnston is on the roster anymore.

[Coogs]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

I don't believe Brian Johnston is on the roster anymore.

http://www.kcchiefs.com/players/

It still has him listed on the roster.

[bdeg]

a 10'8 broadjump and a 4.47 40
He matched that shuttle, too.

Johnston's 1.51 10 yard split is really impressive though, Barwin wasn't far behind with 1.53

Barwin's ceiling is literally 'through the roof'

Someone explain to me why Maybin is a better prospect than Barwin.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by bdeg

a 10'8 broadjump and a 4.49 40

A ceiling literally 'through the roof'

4.47 at his pro day

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare

4.47 at his pro day

yup good call, I'd already corrected it too lol

Barwin also had a 40 inch vertical

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by bdeg

yup good call, I'd already corrected it too lol

Barwin also had a 40 inch vertical

Great. Second coming of Matt Jones. Freak athlete with no experience at any position. That's a first round pick for teams that border on insanity and a sixth round pick for a smart team.

[Tribal Warfare]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Great. Second coming of Matt Jones. Freak athlete with no experience at any position. That's a first round pick for teams that border on insanity and a sixth round pick for a smart team.

Matt Jones played QB for the Razorbacks without any college production as a WR, how does that relate to Barwin?

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Great. Second coming of Matt Jones. Freak athlete with no experience at any position. That's a first round pick for teams that border on insanity and a sixth round pick for a smart team.

He did get like 11 sacks or something like that last year. He didn't look inept at DE. He looked natural. Once he learned to time the snap he was a force rushing the edge. If he gets good coaching and learns the pass rush moves of a player like Brown he will be near unblockable. This may take a couple years, but he will contribute as a rusher early, and I believe he'll continue to show the hard work and improvement he showed in his one year on D.

[Spicy McHaggis]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Great. Second coming of Matt Jones. Freak athlete with no experience at any position. That's a first round pick for teams that border on insanity and a sixth round pick for a smart team.

I can see why you would say that, (both guys are "potential" guys, freakish athletes, played b-ball) but it isn't a great comparison IMO. Jones hadn't played any wide out prior to the pros aside from splitting a bit of time there his freshman year. There was really no evidence to think he would turn out to be really productive as a wideout in the NFL. Barwin has at least a year of experience at DE and was productive with 11 sacks.

Jones was a third round pick or later that Jacksonville took a major chance on. Barwin has generally been viewed as a 2nd rounder and if the Chiefs select him, it will probably be in that range. Jones looked disinterested in games in both college and the NFL whereas Barwin's work ethic has been lauded as great.

And Barwin doesn't have a coke problem.

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by bdeg

a 10'8 broadjump and a 4.47 40
He matched that shuttle, too.

Johnston's 1.51 10 yard split is really impressive though, Barwin wasn't far behind with 1.53

Barwin's ceiling is literally 'through the roof'

Someone explain to me why Maybin is a better prospect than Barwin.

I'm not high on Maybin either and also Brown for the same reason - that they operated in a pure pass rush mode all season with little technique other than a speed rush.

Barwin is an athletic freak, and dominated rushing from the DE spot in his only season there. I don't know if it was because of the lack of competition or that he was just that good. I'm just a little leary of taking a guy with absolutely no experience at the OLB spot as early in the draft as they are considering him. It's just too much of a risk with that high of a pick. If the Chiefs had multiple second round picks, maybe...but it's asking a lot to go out on a limb for a guy you really don't know about other than insane combine numbers. The draft is littered with guys like that who never pan out. Chiefs just recently with Kawika Mitchell as an example. Crazy numbers, but the guy was simply a marginal at best football player. At least to me, with three years of TE experience and his athletic ability, Barwin should have been absolutely devastating people from that TE spot, unless he had oven mitts for hands and had an epiphany about football once he was thrown over to the other side of the ball. Who knows?

I understand that getting a one dimensional player is okay, if that one dimension is rushing the passer, but they had better do it better than anyone in the NFL to justify a #3 pick, ala DT. But I think you can pick up a two down Elvis Dumervil type of player later on...maybe not this draft though. Allen turned out to be so much more than that. Lucky for the Chiefs - at least for a couple of years. I think that they looked at Johnston in the same manner. Maybe he turns it on this next season. But I don't see Barwin as anything more than a smaller version of Brian Johnston at this point - with less experience at the edge.

The real befuddlement that I have is why George Selvie was told to go back to school and work on his game, but Maybin is in the draft and is being considered a first round pick. Selvie is an absolute beast in rushing the passer, and uses a variety of moves to do so. Absolutely relentless. That's the guy that I'd love the Chiefs to look at for next years draft. Him or Germaine Gresham as Tony's replacement.

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

That's the guy that I'd love the Chiefs to look at for next years draft. Him or Germaine Gresham as Tony's replacement.

Wait.....


You are advocating taking TE in the top ten?

Are you ****ing high?

[Saccopoo]

Originally Posted by milkman

Wait.....


You are advocating taking TE in the top ten?

Are you ****ing high?

Not when I typed that I wasn't.

I like getting the best football player possible, and Gresham is one of, if not the, best tight ends I've ever seen in college. I understand that there is a whole of people around here that like picking position value with their mocks or whathaveyou; e.g., *in the most whiny voice possible* "You don't pick linebackers in the top three!!!! Waaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!", etc.

Personally, I don't give a rat's patootie what position a guy plays. Get the best guy possible unless you got a great guy there already. To take a flyer on a boom/bust guy or a reach just because he plays a certain position that "considered" by some to be more important than another is not very intelligent in my book.

And it's because of this that certain positions are overvalued by the casual fan - positions such as cornerback, wide receiver, rush end, etc. Everyone likes to see replay highlights of a sack, of a douchey touchdown celebration by some Diva level wideout (who would have never have made that touchdown if they didn't get an amazingly good throw from their quarterback - a REAL position of importance), etc.

A football team is the sum of it's parts, and if you can get quality football players who have great instincts and talent at each position, that wins you football games. More often than not, it is the trenches type positions that ultimately win you football games over the long haul than the perceived glamour positions. Give me a top three middle linebacker over a top three rush backer all day long. Same with tight end and wide receiver. Same with safety versus cornerback. It's nice to have a little flash, but the substance has got to be there for a team to win games, and I'm a firm believer that that has to happen in the middle of the field, the trenches before it can happen on the outside "flashy" positions.

[bdeg]

Originally Posted by Saccogoo

Give me a top three middle linebacker over a top three rush backer all day long. Same with tight end and wide receiver. Same with safety versus cornerback. It's nice to have a little flash, but the substance has got to be there for a team to win games, and I'm a firm believer that that has to happen in the middle of the field, the trenches before it can happen on the outside "flashy" positions.

I was with you until this. Really? 3-4 ILB > 3-4 OLB? I know where you're coming from and agree for the most part, but I think that's wrong.