It makes no sense to do anything but pay Dee Ford long term.

[Direckshun]

I don't know if I'd lock him into a Justin Houston 6 year contract, but I'd lock him into a 4 year contract where he's consistently highly paid and gives the Chiefs an "painful" out in 2 years and an easy out in 3.

I know we are reticent to give big money away again, since the last two defensive contracts have gone to defenders who can't stay healthy or whatever it is Berry is doing these days.

But there are very few ways to play effective defense in today's NFL, and they all involve passrushing. I think we should pay Ford to stay.

The concerns that he might "quit" are real, so I trust the Chiefs on this who are around him every day. But this is a guy that had to learn to play football and is as physically gifted as they come. He's strengthened up against the run -- a far cry from the days where he ran away from ball carriers -- and is probably our second-best OLB in coverage, behind Houston.

He's not the leader Hali was, and he's not as intelligent a player as Houston is, but he's possibly the most physically gifted of the three and has a great attitude -- he has never sulked or even faced the slightest suggestion that he's anything other than a good locker room presence. And this coaching staff deserves better than to pour 5 years into his development only to let him walk. We did that with Rodney Hudson and it's just the worst.

Franchising him is not the worst thing in the world. But you cannot let him walk.

Sign Ford long term.

[kccrow]

One thought is that you could rent Ford for 2 years if you wanted, albeit a bit steep, but you wouldn't be locked in long-term. You'd end up paying him about $34 million over 2 years. Projected tag for an OLB is $15.4 in 2019 and in 2020 you'd have to pay him 1.2x that so about $18.5 million. That gives you Ford through the end of Houston's deal and you just let them both walk then at 31 and 29 years old just before you have to anti-up for Mahomes. And realistically, 2020 is the end of this current team's era anyhow as most of these guys contracts expire at that point.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by kccrow

One thought is that you could rent Ford for 2 years if you wanted, albeit a bit steep, but you wouldn't be locked in long-term. You'd end up paying him about $34 million over 2 years. Projected tag for an OLB is $15.4 in 2019 and in 2020 you'd have to pay him 1.2x that so about $18.5 million. That gives you Ford through the end of Houston's deal and you just let them both walk then at 31 and 29 years old just before you have to anti-up for Mahomes. And realistically, 2020 is the end of this current team's era anyhow as most of these guys contracts expire at that point.

If you’re gonna do that thoigh, is just sign him to a four year deal that you could get out of in 2 if need be.

[RunKC]

I don’t think players will play on the 2nd franchise tag and I don’t blame them. Dee has proven his worth this year. If he has to prove it on the tag again then so be it, but if I’m him I want a long term deal after that.

Players aren’t going to just play on a 2nd tag. They could be injured at any time.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

If you’re gonna do that thoigh, is just sign him to a four year deal that you could get out of in 2 if need be.

And in so doing you'd get a pretty damn nice discount in year 3 and/or the ability to greatly reduce the year 1 hit and create rollover that can be used in the coming seasons.

The franchise tag is a way to keep a guy for 1 more year these days. If you have ANY designs on keeping someone for longer than that, give him his LTC. Yes, it could backfire, but them's the breaks.

And Ford, given the fact that he's a little older than most coming into his 2nd contract and since you have a bit of an injury history there (including his back) is absolutely a defensible candidate for that treatment.

By by God they'd better not go out there and give him a long-term deal in 2020 at that point. That's just absolutely stupid and unquestionably the worst of both worlds.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by O.city

If you’re gonna do that thoigh, is just sign him to a four year deal that you could get out of in 2 if need be.

You aren't really "out of" that deal though. You're accelerating bonus money and eating cap. A double-tag would be slightly different.

Originally Posted by RunKC

I don’t think players will play on the 2nd franchise tag and I don’t blame them. Dee has proven his worth this year. If he has to prove it on the tag again then so be it, but if I’m him I want a long term deal after that.

Players aren’t going to just play on a 2nd tag. They could be injured at any time.

They may not, and that's ok. Most do play on the first tag. You can always trade him on the 2nd tag. What most players don't often realize is that a double-tag is probably the most guaranteed money they'll make in their careers unless they have a top-5 market contract. I get the "security" issue though but it's really got to be a significant contract to make more than $34 million guaranteed. Olivier Vernon's big deal only initially offered 40 guaranteed but if he's on the roster in year 3 it ramps that to 52.5 (which he did fulfill btw). You're talking Ford having to be in the top 5 OLB contracts, right up there with Mack, Miller, Houston, and Vernon.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And in so doing you'd get a pretty damn nice discount in year 3 and/or the ability to greatly reduce the year 1 hit and create rollover that can be used in the coming seasons.

The franchise tag is a way to keep a guy for 1 more year these days. If you have ANY designs on keeping someone for longer than that, give him his LTC. Yes, it could backfire, but them's the breaks.

And Ford, given the fact that he's a little older than most coming into his 2nd contract and since you have a bit of an injury history there (including his back) is absolutely a defensible candidate for that treatment.

By by God they'd better not go out there and give him a long-term deal in 2020 at that point. That's just absolutely stupid and unquestionably the worst of both worlds.

I doubt you'll get a year 3 discount, that's when most contracts tend to ramp up. Either year 2 or 3. Lately, some players like Houston and Miller have restructured and rolled salary into signing bonus to save cap in year 3. That's about the best you'd probably be hoping for, especially if you're looking at a 4-year deal. While I'd hope for a Clay Matthews' sized deal for Ford, the reality is probably at least Olivier Vernon.


As a whole, I lean more towards the not trusting side of the fence right now versus the trusting side when it comes to Ford. I'd probably offer him a max of 70 over 5 and if he bucks I'd tag him.

[Chargem]

Originally Posted by kccrow

They may not, and that's ok. Most do play on the first tag. You can always trade him on the 2nd tag.

Didn't a player (maybe Bell?) basically prove this sometimes doesn't work because they can't be traded if they haven't signed the tag?

[Chargem]

Sorry to double post, just saw Spotrac has a market value calculation for Ford of 5 years $56m, $11.2m per year average. I'd be very happy if the Chiefs went that route.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by Chargem

Didn't a player (maybe Bell?) basically prove this sometimes doesn't work because they can't be traded if they haven't signed the tag?

It also doesn't work for the player. If they don't sign the tag, they can be tagged again the following season.