Football What would happen if defensive holding was just a five-yard penalty (no first down)? - Page 2

**Rain Man** · 11-22-2018, 08:29 PM

I've been thinking about the problem in the NFL of not allowing defense, and we've talked about the problems with pass interference. But I think the bigger problem may be defensive holding. Pass interference at least happens near the ball, but as we've all seen, a defensive holding call could occur completely away from the action, and it's a major penalty since it carries a first down. Also, defensive holding has up to five chances of occurring depending on the number of receivers out in routes.

It's a really important penalty call since it carries a first down, even though I'm not convinced that it affects a majority of the plays where it's called.

So tell me your opinion. What if defensive holding was simply treated like an offsides penalty? The play culminates, and the offense can take the result of the play or five yards, which may or may not result in a first down (just like offsides). What's the down side of doing this?

GloryDayz · 11-22-2018, 11:46 PM

I'd be happy if offensive holding was called more than extremely rarely. And yeah, it should be either a spot foul or 15 yards, and an automatic 4th down. Basically apply the same standards to holding for both teams on the field, and the degree of the penalty should be equal.

**srvy** · 11-22-2018, 11:55 PM

Its a natural game steering penalty. It will go nowhere it an important tool for officiating.

KChiefs1 · 11-23-2018, 11:26 AM

No more automatic first downs.

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards.
Defensive holding 5 yards.

Chargem · 11-23-2018, 11:51 AM

but if there were no 1st downs, why wouldn't you just bear hug every receiver on 3rd down and 7+?

**Rain Man** · 11-23-2018, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chargem

but if there were no 1st downs, why wouldn't you just bear hug every receiver on 3rd down and 7+?

It would be treated like offsides. So you'd replay the down five yards closer if the offense accepts the penalty.

cooper barrett · 11-23-2018, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

No more automatic first downs.

Pass interference needs to be 15 yards.
Defensive holding 5 yards.

Receivers would bludgeoned anytime there was a long pass that was catchable....

RippedmyFlesh · 11-24-2018, 12:24 AM

Changing penalties isn't going to fix things. Instead of 5 yards of contact with receivers allowed make it 10. No more automatic 6-8 yard passes. Then you would need a real qb again to be a passing team. Like us.

kccrow · 11-24-2018, 12:57 AM

By the way rainman, here's my original post that I referenced having made on the topic:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...4&postcount=13

bobbything · 11-24-2018, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooge

Defensive holding should be a spot foul penalty. If it’s 3rd and 11 and the holding occurs 7 yards down field, it’d be 3rd and 4. Seems fair to me

This.

Can’t remember which game it was but some team on Thanksgiving had the other in like 3rd and 20. Then they got called for defensive holding like 6 yards down. Aside from the fact that it was questionable holding to begin with, they got an automatic first down.

It was bullshit. I think it was the Cowboys. Maybe that’s why I was so pissed. Got tired of having to watch Jerry Jones’ reaction every time something happened.

GloryDayz · 11-24-2018, 09:44 AM

Sadly, none of this will happen. The NFL wants games with scores something like 54-51, they won't do anything that'll hinder scoring. Nothing...

philfree · 11-24-2018, 10:25 AM

I wouldn't matter because the refs will just call pass interference instead,

oldman · 11-24-2018, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RippedmyFlesh

Instead of 5 yards of contact with receivers allowed make it 10. No more automatic 6-8 yard passes. Then you would need a real qb again to be a passing team. Like us.

This is kind of my thought, too. These guys are just too fast to get a bump on them within that 5 yard zone.

Chief Roundup · 11-24-2018, 11:09 AM

Spot foul, if it happens past the line to gain it could/would still allow for the first down and not allow a defense to hold to stop the first down conversion.

crayzkirk · 11-24-2018, 11:12 AM

I do think the automatic first down is a bit much. Especially when it's third and 25 and the holding occurs prior to the yard marker. With all of the changes favoring the offense, perhaps they should start making penalties on the offense yardage and down. Maybe like the un-catchable pass, there needs to be some sort of sanity check as to whether the offense actually affected the play.

View Poll Results: The penalty for defensive holding should be...
5 yards and a first down	11	31.43%
5 yards	21	60.00%
Something else, which I'll explain below.	2	5.71%
Defensive holding shouldn't be illegal. I enjoy a good defensive hold.	1	2.86%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

11-22-2018, 08:29 PM
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-462449 VARSITY	What would happen if defensive holding was just a five-yard penalty (no first down)? I've been thinking about the problem in the NFL of not allowing defense, and we've talked about the problems with pass interference. But I think the bigger problem may be defensive holding. Pass interference at least happens near the ball, but as we've all seen, a defensive holding call could occur completely away from the action, and it's a major penalty since it carries a first down. Also, defensive holding has up to five chances of occurring depending on the number of receivers out in routes. It's a really important penalty call since it carries a first down, even though I'm not convinced that it affects a majority of the plays where it's called. So tell me your opinion. What if defensive holding was simply treated like an offsides penalty? The play culminates, and the offense can take the result of the play or five yards, which may or may not result in a first down (just like offsides). What's the down side of doing this?
Posts: 145,256

11-22-2018, 11:46 PM	#16
GloryDayz (Sir/Yes Sir/Aye Aye Sir) Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diving Casino cash: $895380	I'd be happy if offensive holding was called more than extremely rarely. And yeah, it should be either a spot foul or 15 yards, and an automatic 4th down. Basically apply the same standards to holding for both teams on the field, and the degree of the penalty should be equal. __________________ . #Like 45, 47 Is Going To Be AWESOME! #I still don't have COVID #I'mImmuneToVirtueSignaling
Posts: 123,203

11-22-2018, 11:55 PM	#17
srvy Fight, build, win! Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: KC Casino cash: $-2018750	Its a natural game steering penalty. It will go nowhere it an important tool for officiating. __________________ "The victim stance is a powerful one. The victim is always morally right, neither responsible nor accountable, and forever entitled to sympathy."
Posts: 25,728

11-23-2018, 11:26 AM	#18
KChiefs1 I’m a Mahomo! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mid-Missouri Casino cash: $6771021	No more automatic first downs. Pass interference needs to be 15 yards. Defensive holding 5 yards. __________________
Posts: 54,038

11-23-2018, 11:51 AM	#19
Chargem Veteran Join Date: Feb 2018 Casino cash: $1200400	but if there were no 1st downs, why wouldn't you just bear hug every receiver on 3rd down and 7+?
Posts: 2,492

11-24-2018, 12:24 AM	#22
RippedmyFlesh Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Casino cash: $10005817	Changing penalties isn't going to fix things. Instead of 5 yards of contact with receivers allowed make it 10. No more automatic 6-8 yard passes. Then you would need a real qb again to be a passing team. Like us. __________________ Steelers LB Bud Dupree admits Steelers underestimated Chiefs QB Pat Mahomes intelligence. "I feel like his intelligence was better than we thought."
Posts: 4,848

11-24-2018, 12:57 AM	#23
kccrow MVP Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Michigan Casino cash: $-1070000	By the way rainman, here's my original post that I referenced having made on the topic: http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showp...4&postcount=13
Posts: 14,012

11-24-2018, 09:44 AM	#25
GloryDayz (Sir/Yes Sir/Aye Aye Sir) Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Diving Casino cash: $895380	Sadly, none of this will happen. The NFL wants games with scores something like 54-51, they won't do anything that'll hinder scoring. Nothing... __________________ . #Like 45, 47 Is Going To Be AWESOME! #I still don't have COVID #I'mImmuneToVirtueSignaling
Posts: 123,203

11-24-2018, 10:25 AM	#26
philfree Indian Twitter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Free Agency Casino cash: $-1993802	I wouldn't matter because the refs will just call pass interference instead, __________________ [/SIGPIC]
Posts: 16,099

11-24-2018, 11:09 AM	#28
Chief Roundup Admitted Planet Junky Join Date: Oct 2000 Casino cash: $-1368373	Spot foul, if it happens past the line to gain it could/would still allow for the first down and not allow a defense to hold to stop the first down conversion. __________________ Fanaticism is nowhere. There is no tenderness or humanity in fanaticism.
Posts: 19,544

11-24-2018, 11:12 AM	#29
crayzkirk MVP Join Date: Nov 2016 Casino cash: $1060000	I do think the automatic first down is a bit much. Especially when it's third and 25 and the holding occurs prior to the yard marker. With all of the changes favoring the offense, perhaps they should start making penalties on the offense yardage and down. Maybe like the un-catchable pass, there needs to be some sort of sanity check as to whether the offense actually affected the play.
Posts: 5,408

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