Do you trust Veach/Reid to draft WR or DE?

[emaw1979]

Everyone is pretty excited and rightfully so to have 6 top 100 draft picks in this incredibly deep draft. Two of our biggest needs are DE and WR and two of the deepest position groups in the draft. This couldn't be more perfect, right?

I'm starting to get a little nervous because this draft may be the difference between setting the franchise up for years of continued success or the end of a mini-dynasty. Given this team's draft history of DE and WR under Reid, I am a little worried. I fully trust them at drafting G/C positions and CBs anywhere in the draft. Their record with QB is pretty dang good as well. It's just CB and pass rush that I'm concerned about with them.


Reid/Dorsey

2013 DE Mike Catapano 7th...throw away pick. 2 Career sacks.
2014 DE Dee Ford. 1st round pick. Played more than 6 games twice in his 8 year career. Had 1 pro bowl season in 2018. Is he considered a bust?
2015 WR Chris Conley 3rd round. Was drafted more on potential. Best season so far for him was in Jacksonville 47/775/5.
2016 WR DeMarcus Robinson 4th...Mr Backwards. Role Player at best.
2016 WR Tyreek Hill 5th. Accidently ran into greatness. Was drafted as KR and the plan was to use him primarily as an RB.
2016 DE Dadi Nicolas 6th...
2017 DE Tanoh Kpass 2nd...bust. I'd have liked to see him with Spags his entire career though instead of the previous cluster ****.
2017 WR Jehu Chesson 4th...

Reid/Veach

2018 DE Beeland Speaks 2nd (traded up for this loser) BUST
2018 WR/CB/KR Tremon Smith 6th...I don't remember if he was CB then they moved him to WR or vice versa.
2019 WR Mecole Hardman 2nd BUST. The guy has all the speed and talent to be a very good WR but skips out on working out with Mahomes in the off-season and never seems to be on the same page as Mahomes.
2020 DE Michael Danna 5th. He plays because they have garbage at DE. Not a starter level but role type player, which is fine for a 5th rounder.
2021 DE Joshua Kaindoh 4th. Can a 4th rounder be a bust? MIA
2021 WR Cornell Powell 5th. Can a 5th rounder be a bust? MIA

Obviously, Reid did draft some good players at those positions in Philly.
DE Derrick Burgess
DE Trent Cole
WR Desean Jackson
WR Jeremy Macklin
WR Jason Avant

[Couch-Potato]

I agree that you'd hope for more out of a 2nd round WR, but I also saw someone post the 1st RD WR Bust % recently and I was really surprised to see how few WRs work out in this league.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by Best22

He averages 630 total yards and 4 TD per year

I wouldn’t expect any better from the 56th pick in the draft. He was also a late second, closer to the beginning of the 3rd roundthan beginning of the 2nd

AND he's been behind Tyreek Hill, who is the ultimate small, speedy WR.

It's been thought that Hardman was a reaction pick to the possibility that Hill would be gone with the psycho ex situation. Which would make sense.

It's difficult for small guys like that to play ON the line; they'll always struggle to get a clean/quick release at their size against press coverage.

And so Hardman has been a gadget guy. That doesn't mean he couldn't run routes from the 'Z' spot, where he gets a running start at it.

We'll see what Andy does, but I would expect that's the plan.

[Chris Meck]

Thing is, hindsight is always 20/20. DK Metcalf hadn't shown anything other than a freakish physique and straight line speed. That's all he'd put on tape. There were real, big questions that he would be able to do anything other than run fly patterns in the NFL.

You could compare him to Watson this year as a prospect. While Watson has freakish size and speed, he played in a run heavy offense against lesser competition but he did show more lateral quickness than Metcalf. But to pretend now that Metcalf was this can't miss prospect that we passed on is not a legitimate stance to take.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Thing is, hindsight is always 20/20. DK Metcalf hadn't shown anything other than a freakish physique and straight line speed. That's all he'd put on tape. There were real, big questions that he would be able to do anything other than run fly patterns in the NFL.

You could compare him to Watson this year as a prospect. While Watson has freakish size and speed, he played in a run heavy offense against lesser competition but he did show more lateral quickness than Metcalf. But to pretend now that Metcalf was this can't miss prospect that we passed on is not a legitimate stance to take.

Exactly.

There's a reason Metcalf went in the 2nd and not the 1st. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Dunerdr]

Are we not factoring in context when picks were made? Hardman was the closest thing to a Tyreek replacement on the board. We can argue until were blue in the face but its obvious the chiefs valued that speed element and thought they were going to lose tyreek. Then when CEH is taken they just came off a super bowl that had the rb1 Damien Williams hurt all season, just to show up and make a historic playoff and super bowl run. They clearly didnt trust Damien to be the guy and retruned something absurd like 50 starters from the sb season. They thought they saw a spot to make an immediate upgrade with a more reliable player. He wasnt my favorite RB ever drafted but swift had huge question marks and still isnt rb1, and Taylor had a ton of college miles before ever being drafted.

[O.city]

The problem with the CEH pick wasn't that they picked the wrong RB. It's that they picked a RB.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

The problem with the CEH pick wasn't that they picked the wrong RB. It's that they picked a RB.

Yep.

[CupidStunt]

As to the thread, you trust a GM because of the overall package anyway, not supposed ability to scout one position (which itself is done by a bunch of other people).

In other words, would you rather trust Veach to pick the right WR, or let's say the Commanders' front office, who stumbled into a stud like McLaurin at WR but are mostly a bunch of idiots?

By the same token, I don't consider Veach bulletproof when drafting a corner like some seem to. We've done well there, but that won't mean squat if we took a CB at 30 and he's awful.

[Rasputin]

2019 WR Mecole Hardman 2nd BUST. The guy has all the speed and talent to be a very good WR but skips out on working out with Mahomes in the off-season and never seems to be on the same page as Mahomes.


This take is dumb as ****. Just because it hasn't been reported they didn't work out doesn't mean they haven't worked out together in the off season. They always have OTAs too. They have been on the same page but Mahomes forces the ball to Tyreek way to often and Tyreek bobbles the ball and gets intercepted. Mecole was open in the second half of the Bengals game and should have taken advantage of that.

Has Mecole lived up to expectations no I'd say not but a lot of his opportunities were taken away by Tyreek Hill and if you look by ratio Hill would have made just as many mistakes as Mecole ratio of plays targets. The difference was opportunity. Now Mecole has a chance to earn with competition to battle it out for #1 WR but I think they are better suited moving guys around to confuse defenses.

Mecole may not win the #1 WR but I'm not worried about it he is going make plays because Andy Reid is going take advantage of his speed and he is a home run hitter. He played good in the playoffs but doesn't get credit for it.

[Chris Meck]

In the case of Hardman, I think the issue gets really clouded by a bunch of stuff that's meaningless.

DK Metcalf being one thing. He was FAR from a sure thing. Lotsa red flags.

Second, you want to put varied skillsets on the field at any one time. So having two tiny speedsters isn't ideal. A lot of potential Hardman plays went to Hill instead. I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T have, I'm saying they did. Hardman is not Hill, of course, but he has a similar skillset in a lot of ways. He'll probably never track the deep ball quite like Hill, but then nobody does. But as far as the screens, and jet sweeps, and then the deep patterns from the 'Z' position, yes, Hardman can do those things. I would say it's VERY likely that Hardman's role expands quite a bit this season, and he gets more targets that used to go to Hill.

MVS is also speedy, but much bigger, and that's going to help take the top off the defense. If I were a defensive coordinator, I'm not coming out of two deep shells just because Hill is gone. Do that, and Hardman and MVS will eat you alive.

Stay in the two deep shell, and Kelce and Juju will eat you alive.

God help me if the Chiefs ever decided to actually run the ball.

We're in a lot better shape than people think.

I still am in favor of drafting TWO WR's in this draft, as it's time to re-stock the position but there's no reason we can't be BETTER OVERALL from top to bottom at the position than we have been since Watkins left.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by O.city

The problem with the CEH pick wasn't that they picked the wrong RB. It's that they picked a RB.

Meh but at the time we were bringing back 98% of the team. There wasn't much worry but needed a dynamic Running Back that CEH is (just has to stay healthy) At the time of the draft and late first round CEH was a luxury pick and kudos to Vlasic for giving SB LIV MVP the first pick of the draft and Clyde busted balls his first year until he did the splits and our offensive line went to shit. So it really was a good pick but Hindsight is always 20/50

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

In the case of Hardman, I think the issue gets really clouded by a bunch of stuff that's meaningless.

DK Metcalf being one thing. He was FAR from a sure thing. Lotsa red flags.

Second, you want to put varied skillsets on the field at any one time. So having two tiny speedsters isn't ideal. A lot of potential Hardman plays went to Hill instead. I'm not saying they SHOULDN'T have, I'm saying they did. Hardman is not Hill, of course, but he has a similar skillset in a lot of ways. He'll probably never track the deep ball quite like Hill, but then nobody does. But as far as the screens, and jet sweeps, and then the deep patterns from the 'Z' position, yes, Hardman can do those things. I would say it's VERY likely that Hardman's role expands quite a bit this season, and he gets more targets that used to go to Hill.

MVS is also speedy, but much bigger, and that's going to help take the top off the defense. If I were a defensive coordinator, I'm not coming out of two deep shells just because Hill is gone. Do that, and Hardman and MVS will eat you alive.

Stay in the two deep shell, and Kelce and Juju will eat you alive.

God help me if the Chiefs ever decided to actually run the ball.

We're in a lot better shape than people think.

I still am in favor of drafting TWO WR's in this draft, as it's time to re-stock the position but there's no reason we can't be BETTER OVERALL from top to bottom at the position than we have been since Watkins left.

We have no NO excuse not to run the ball and have balanced offense for a change much like Dick Vermei. I agree we have speed so we don't need speedy WR what we need is a solid route runner big and tall that can out leap DBs especially in the red zone end zone and take away Kelce getting beat up. Make them use a linebacker. But if we got a tall big target or a chain mover defenses can get ****ed because we will always have that deep threat. Short intermediate to mid range and deep. Defenses are going have to decide what to defend because Patrick is going pick them apart and I have a feeling this is going be Patrick Mahomes II best season that we haven't seen the best out of him yet. Patrick is coming and Hells coming with him HELLS COMING WITH HIM


With this offensive line there is no excuse not to run the ball and watch Trey Smith pancake linebackers that man looks forward to knocking guys on their ass all day.

[Rasputin]

I trust Vlasic to draft a edge rusher or D lineman and Edge rusher D lineman and CB before drafting a WR.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by Rasputin

Meh but at the time we were bringing back 98% of the team. There wasn't much worry but needed a dynamic Running Back that CEH is (just has to stay healthy) At the time of the draft and late first round CEH was a luxury pick and kudos to Vlasic for giving SB LIV MVP the first pick of the draft and Clyde busted balls his first year until he did the splits and our offensive line went to shit. So it really was a good pick but Hindsight is always 20/50

It was never a good pick. Just terrible value on a position that's easier to fill than Pestilence's mom.

"Value picks" like that are how you get into positions like we're in now. Had they taken a WR there, we'd be better off now.

Forward thinking in the draft. Alwasys.

[chiefforlife]

Originally Posted by O.city

The problem with the CEH pick wasn't that they picked the wrong RB. It's that they picked a RB.

Yes and No, Probably shouldnt have taken a 1st rounder BUT had they taken any other top RB, Taylor, Swift, Dobbins (2nd rounders) or even Antonio Gibson (3rd rounder) we would be much happier with the pick.

So I think both sides of this discussion have merit.