Let's talk about the Bills

[TLO]

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[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by R Clark

32 mailed it in last season before last season you could make that statement but not last yr

Um, check your data.

Tyrann finished the season last year with 76 tackles (60 solo), 2 TFLs, 3 INTs, 1 TD, 6 PDs, and 3 fumble recoveries. Yeah, those numbers are down a bit from his career best, but not by that much in most of those stat columns. He wasn't his best in 2021, but he was better than a lot of safeties in 2021. A lot better than Justin, for example. And again, i like Justin, now that he's a Chief.

[DRM08]

Originally Posted by Chieftain

I will be impressed if Allen outplays Mahomes on Sunday. I don't think he will. He is intimidated by the greatness of Mahomes. In crunch time when shit gets real, he will crumble. Allen looks all mighty against shitty opponents but against elite offenses like the Chiefs or as we learned the Dolphins, he can't close the deal.

Allen isn’t scared of Mahomes or Arrowhead. He torched the Chiefs defense twice last season and it won’t be surprising if Allen has a lot of success on Sunday. From what I have seen, those guys have a lot of respect for each other. That’s how it should be. They are both damn good at their job, but they also seem to be pretty good guys off the field as well.

[IowaHawkeyeChief]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Um, check your data.

Tyrann finished the season last year with 76 tackles (60 solo), 2 TFLs, 3 INTs, 1 TD, 6 PDs, and 3 fumble recoveries. Yeah, those numbers are down a bit from his career best, but not by that much in most of those stat columns. He wasn't his best in 2021, but he was better than a lot of safeties in 2021. A lot better than Justin, for example. And again, i like Justin, now that he's a Chief.

Come on man... He was 3/4 the player he was the previous 2 years. Reid is an upgrade, period.

[ChiTown]

Allen and Mahomes are the 2 best QB’s in the league. This is going to be a great dogfight. Can’t wait!

[R Clark]

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

Come on man... He was 3/4 the player he was the previous 2 years. Reid is an upgrade, period.

If you watched the games it was pretty clear and he was piss poor against the run. I’d take Reid over him all day long

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief

Come on man... He was 3/4 the player he was the previous 2 years. Reid is an upgrade, period.

Not aurging that. Mathieu definitely wasn't himself last year, and I said as much about mid-season, iirc.

But Justin has never put up the kinds of stats that Mathieu has, excepting total tackles. Like I said before, don't take my word for it, simply look up their stats season by season for the last, oh 5 years. He is a solid safety and a smart one, and I expect him to be a stable influence on the secondary, which is what they need from him right now.

Justin's not in the same ballpark. He's not the Honey Badger.

[RaidersOftheCellar]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Not aurging that. Mathieu definitely wasn't himself last year, and I said as much about mid-season, iirc.

But Justin has never put up the kinds of stats that Mathieu has, excepting total tackles. Like I said before, don't take my word for it, simply look up their stats season by season for the last, oh 5 years. He is a solid safety and a smart one, and I expect him to be a stable influence on the secondary, which is what they need from him right now.

Justin's not in the same ballpark. He's not the Honey Badger.

What are we talking about here? Isn't the whole point that Money Badger is in decline? Yet you're over here reminding everybody that his career has been better than Justin Reid's. For some reason.

Last season, Reid averaged more tackles per game. He had a forced fumble. Mathieu did not. Reid had 2 INT in 13 games. Mathieu 3 in 16 games. 4 PD in 13 games vs 6 in 16 games.

So far this year, Reid has 23 tackles to Mathieu's 26. Each has one PD. Mathieu has an INT and Reid doesn't have one yet. Reid has a stuff and HB has zero.

Since you're basing everything off stats, how are they not in the same ballpark currently?

[Coochie liquor]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Maybe. But Justin Reid isn't Mathieu, and it's not close. With Tyrann, every OC we faced wanted to know where 32 was before every snap. Don't take my word for it, check virtually any HB highlight film (as a Chief); it's like a chant, "where's three-two?" over and over. We don't have a guy that commands that kind of attention back there anymore. Or his 75-85 tackles/season, or his 4-5 INTs, 7-9 PDs, 3-4 fumble recoveries, and so on.

Now, before someone misconstrues my meaning again, I'm not saying Justin isn't a good player. Because I think he is, and I like him. But he's more limited compared to what Tyrann was for us, and that's not in dispute. The point is that to make up for Tyrann, the secondary as a whole has to play a little better than when we had him back there.

And the fan base is a fickle thing. Heck, they got mad at him for a twittle or whatever. That's stupid. But fan bases on social media are just a virtual mob, and mobs are overwhelmingly stupid.

Wouldn’t be the first time I was wrong!

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

What are we talking about here? Isn't the whole point that Money Badger is in decline? Yet you're over here reminding everybody that his career has been better than Justin Reid's. For some reason.

Last season, Reid averaged more tackles per game. He had a forced fumble. Mathieu did not. Reid had 2 INT in 13 games. Mathieu 3 in 16 games. 4 PD in 13 games vs 6 in 16 games.

So far this year, Reid has 23 tackles to Mathieu's 26. Each has one PD. Mathieu has an INT and Reid doesn't have one yet. Reid has a stuff and HB has zero.

Since you're basing everything off stats, how are they not in the same ballpark currently?

Actually, I'm not basing everything off stats. I almost never do. I've said often enough that stats only show a part of the whole story. That the eyeball test is necessary to get closer to the whole picture. Many here seem to disagree.

To that end, I try not to cherry pick stats either. For instance, in your post above, you forgot to mention that HB had a sack (Justin did not) as well as 3 fumble recoveries vs. Justin's 0. Now maybe that wasn't purposeful, but those are significant stats that were left out.

And last year was widely believed to be a down year for HB. And it probably was. I'd guess he was about 75% of his former self last season. But he did get COVID early in the year, and he was sucking oxygen for several games when he came back. Thos are indisputable facts. And it's hard to be 100% when you can't breathe properly.

But let's stop talking stats.

Tyrann's greatest weapon has always been his disruptive style of play.

He was always capable of playing almost anywhere on the field, whether it was CB, the slot, safety, even LB in some situations. Even switching around presnap. Add in his athletic ability, his ability to play any position in the secondary at a very high level, great hands, and then his elite ability to read the minds of the OC and the QB on a fairly regular basis.

Justin isn't that kind of safety. he isn't going to run around showing the QB multiple looks presnap, or make one of those splash plays where HB would switch off or onto a receiver mid-play and either force the ball elsewhere or cause anything from an INT to a forced fumble or a pass defensed.

That was HB's trademark. Making QBs and even OCs second guess themselves before and during a play.

Justin is more traditional in his style of play. Which is fine. As I said, the secondary needs a stabilizing influence this season. And right or wrong, HB wasn't that for the team anymore. And he was going to be too expensive, iirc.

Now maybe HB really is in decline. This season will speak volumes to that idea. But I don't doubt that he can have another great season in him, maybe even a couple. And his numbers from last year (see, this is where I like to use stats, to fill in a picture) say that he wasn't as bad as some think he was. he wasn't at his best, but he was far from his worst.

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Allen better win a title before his "tough" bullshit scrambling gets him Newton'd, Herbert'd, or Tua'd. QBs that get hit like that aren't going to last

[RaidersOftheCellar]

I get tired of the narrative that the Bills were better than KC that night and deserved the win. If the Chiefs hadn't shot themselves in the foot many times, the game wouldn't have been close.

First, Butker misses an easy FG at the end of the first half. Later, a holding penalty negated a run that would have set them up with a first down deep in the red zone. Turned into 3rd and 18 and they had to settle for 3. Then Butker misses an XP after Hardman's TD. What could have been 31-14 late in the 3rd was only 23-14. Allen's bomb to Davis on the next drive would have only cut it to a 10 point lead. And the KC FG midway through the 4th would have made it 34-21.

Then of course came the insanity of the last two minutes. If Hughes doesn't fall down and leave Davis wide open in the endzone, they likely turn it over on downs and the game's over. 34-21. Even if they get the score there, Tyreek's long TD on the next drive would have iced it.

The Bills were pretty damn lucky to have a late lead.

[smithandrew051]

Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar

I get tired of the narrative that the Bills were better than KC that night and deserved the win. If the Chiefs hadn't shot themselves in the foot many times, the game wouldn't have been close.

First, Butker misses an easy FG at the end of the first half. Later, a holding penalty negated a run that would have set them up with a first down deep in the red zone. Turned into 3rd and 18 and they had to settle for 3. Then Butker misses an XP after Hardman's TD. What could have been 31-14 late in the 3rd was only 23-14. Allen's bomb to Davis on the next drive would have only cut it to a 10 point lead. And the KC FG midway through the 4th would have made it 34-21.

Then of course came the insanity of the last two minutes. If Hughes doesn't fall down and leave Davis wide open in the endzone, they likely turn it over on downs and the game's over. 34-21. Even if they get the score there, Tyreek's long TD on the next drive would have iced it.

The Bills were pretty damn lucky to have a late lead.

Maybe I missed it in your post, but we also ran that stupid option with Bell on 3rd and 1 that made us settle for a field goal after Tyreek’s big punt return.

[smithandrew051]

And also Mathieu went out hurt really early in the game

[Stryker]

Bills have an incredible team but, if the Dolphins can beat them then we should be able to do the same! Not worried - let's beat this team in OUR HOUSE! Geaux CHIEFS! Victory or Bust!

[raybec 4]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Actually, I'm not basing everything off stats. I almost never do. I've said often enough that stats only show a part of the whole story. That the eyeball test is necessary to get closer to the whole picture. Many here seem to disagree.

To that end, I try not to cherry pick stats either. For instance, in your post above, you forgot to mention that HB had a sack (Justin did not) as well as 3 fumble recoveries vs. Justin's 0. Now maybe that wasn't purposeful, but those are significant stats that were left out.

And last year was widely believed to be a down year for HB. And it probably was. I'd guess he was about 75% of his former self last season. But he did get COVID early in the year, and he was sucking oxygen for several games when he came back. Thos are indisputable facts. And it's hard to be 100% when you can't breathe properly.

But let's stop talking stats.

Tyrann's greatest weapon has always been his disruptive style of play.

He was always capable of playing almost anywhere on the field, whether it was CB, the slot, safety, even LB in some situations. Even switching around presnap. Add in his athletic ability, his ability to play any position in the secondary at a very high level, great hands, and then his elite ability to read the minds of the OC and the QB on a fairly regular basis.

Justin isn't that kind of safety. he isn't going to run around showing the QB multiple looks presnap, or make one of those splash plays where HB would switch off or onto a receiver mid-play and either force the ball elsewhere or cause anything from an INT to a forced fumble or a pass defensed.

That was HB's trademark. Making QBs and even OCs second guess themselves before and during a play.

Justin is more traditional in his style of play. Which is fine. As I said, the secondary needs a stabilizing influence this season. And right or wrong, HB wasn't that for the team anymore. And he was going to be too expensive, iirc.

Now maybe HB really is in decline. This season will speak volumes to that idea. But I don't doubt that he can have another great season in him, maybe even a couple. And his numbers from last year (see, this is where I like to use stats, to fill in a picture) say that he wasn't as bad as some think he was. he wasn't at his best, but he was far from his worst.

Maybe Reid won't do some of the good things Mathieu did but he also won't be the complete ****ing tool who shows his teammates up by throwing his hands in the air on a blown coverage multiple times and then have the balls to call himself a leader. That's not leadership. He's a good safety and he's a great rah-rah guy but he's also an arrogant me first prick. There's a reason they didn't even offer him a contract.