Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers - Page 3

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 11:36 AM

Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day

Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why
Young Adults Feel So Entitled

July 5, 2007; Page B5

Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's.

"They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers."

Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself.

Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things?

Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged:

"You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice."

Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting."

Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special.

By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it."

"They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided.

"Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders.

"Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions.

In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?"

He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?"

Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3

Calcountry · 07-09-2007, 02:23 PM

geesh, if Mr. Rogers caused all that, one can only imagine the article someone will post 15 years from now about all the toxicity caused by Rosie O' dumshit.

BucEyedPea · 07-09-2007, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric

It would be nice if there was an ASSKICKING reality show on tv for spoiled rich disrespectful punks who get the living sh** kicked out of them.

But that would be illegal. Would be incredible ratings!

Take out the spoiled and rich and you coulda filme my family growing up.
My dad was a Sicilian tyrant.

jidar · 07-09-2007, 02:23 PM

this is obvious but doesn't go far enough.

We over coddle in the name of fairness. For instance I have 2 children, a 13 year old daughter and a 10 year old boy. If I let my daughter do something because shes old enough but my not son then my wife will get pissed and say it's not fair.

No it's perfectly ****ing fair because she's older. Yes it sucks for my son at that moment, and yes he's disappointed, but that's life and he needs to learn to deal with all of that.

Kids need to fail, they need to be told when they suck, they need to experience disappointment and perceived unfairness. They need to be exposed to things that prepare them for a potentialy harsh world because that might be what they end up in.
And besides, if they aren't their life will be ****ing boring and they will go through it depressed and unhappy without really knowing why.

But at the same time they need to be protected a bit and brought along slowly, so how slow is slow enough?

I propose the following litmus test: If you keep your kids from playing some video games to protect them, then you're over doing it.

bkkcoh · 07-09-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Do you put a helmet and knee pads on your kids to ride a bike?

Nope, and we had bb gun and bottle rocket fights and survived without any serious injuries.

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Do you put a helmet and knee pads on your kids to ride a bike?

Fukk, no. I remove the chainguard, fenders, and reflectors....and send 'em out on I-29 at dusk to retrieve aluminmum cans, so I can earn some beer money from recycling. The four of 'em can usually scrounge up enough cans for a twelve pack of domestic/six pack of imports within an hour.

(FTR, Helmet, yes; knee-pads....eh, no--R U friggin' kiddin' me?

)

bkkcoh · 07-09-2007, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jidar

this is obvious but doesn't go far enough.

We over coddle in the name of fairness. For instance I have 2 children, a 13 year old daughter and a 10 year old boy. If I let my daughter do something because shes old enough but my not son then my wife will get pissed and say it's not fair.

No it's perfectly ****ing fair because she's older. Yes it sucks for my son at that moment, and yes he's disappointed, but that's life and he needs to learn to deal with all of that.

Kids need to fail, they need to be told when they suck, they need to experience disappointment and perceived unfairness. They need to be exposed to things that prepare them for a potentialy harsh world because that might be what they end up in.
And besides, if they aren't their life will be ****ing boring and they will go through it depressed and unhappy without really knowing why.

But at the same time they need to be protected a bit and brought along slowly, so how slow is slow enough?

I propose the following litmus test: If you keep your kids from playing some video games to protect them, then you're over doing it.

Absolutely correct.

We have issues with our daughter because she isn't allowed to do the same things that the older brother does. She just doesn't understand that there is a difference. There is a big difference in 2 years at the age they are right now.

Kids need to fail to understand how or what they did wrong. Building up a kids self-esteem for the saving of hurt feelings is totally bogus. They are going to have to learn to respond to adverse situations. Not everything is going to go their way in life.

**Bob Dole** · 07-09-2007, 02:36 PM

Wow.

If Zaslow starts a cult, Bob Dole is going to sign up.

Simplex3 · 07-09-2007, 02:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BucEyedPea

...she got a Presidential Academic Award...

Must...resist...joke...teed...up...too...high...

headsnap · 07-09-2007, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Do you put a helmet and knee pads on your kids to ride a bike?

Yes...

8yo daughter in the intro in the blue, yours truly with the red cast on broken wrist, and 5yo son when the music kicks in:

racing especially at the national level builds character, and there's no crying in BMX!!!

**Mr. Kotter** · 07-09-2007, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by headsnap

Yes...

8yo daughter in the intro in the blue, yours truly with the red cast on broken wrist, and 5yo son when the music kicks in:

racing especially at the national level builds character, and there's no crying in BMX!!!

That's awesome.

Motocross in their futures, eh?

Adept Havelock · 07-09-2007, 04:09 PM

Blaming Mr. Rogers for this makes as much sense as blaming Buck Rogers, IMO.

Whatever scapegoat makes you happy, Mr. K.

Personally, I think it's Gabe Kaplan's fault.

Direckshun · 07-09-2007, 04:10 PM

Post hoc ergo propter hoc.

**HemiEd** · 07-09-2007, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkkcoh

Nope, and we had bb gun and bottle rocket fights and survived without any serious injuries.

The strong will survive!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Fukk, no. I remove the chainguard, fenders, and reflectors....and send 'em out on I-29 at dusk to retrieve aluminmum cans, so I can earn some beer money from recycling. The four of 'em can usually scrounge up enough cans for a twelve pack of domestic/six pack of imports within an hour.

(FTR, Helmet, yes; knee-pads....eh, no--R U friggin' kiddin' me?

)

Helmets? Case closed.

**Rain Man** · 07-09-2007, 05:57 PM

I do my best to offset this by whispering mean things to children in grocery stores.

"Psst, I heard that your mom is going to abandon you when she gets to the frozen foods."

"Psst, I'm a gypsy. You're going to get lost in the woods and die."

"Psst, that's not your mom. That's a crazy nurse who stole you from the hospital."

I think this sort of thing really helps to ground them.

KCChiefsMan · 07-09-2007, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HemiEd

Here is a little thing on Mr. Rogers, RIP!

Mr. Rogers was a U.S. Navy Seal,

combat-proven in Vietnam with over twenty-five

confirmed kills to his name. He wore a

long-sleeved sweater on TV, to cover the many

tattoos on his forearm and biceps. He was a master

in small arms and hand-to-hand combat, able to

disarm or kill in a heartbeat

After the war Mr. Rogers became an ordained

Presbyterian minister and therefore a pacifist.

Vowing to never harm another human and also

dedicating the rest of his life to trying to help

lead children on the right path in life. He hid away

the tattoos and his past life and won our hearts

with his quiet wit and charm.

well thats a fun fact I didn't know, is that really true?

07-09-2007, 11:36 AM
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3274285	Why Americans Have Become Spoiled Brats: Blame Mr. Rogers Good read. And, from the perspective of a teacher who's been in the classroom 16 years now.....it's exactly on target, as far as I can see. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1183...ost_viewed_day Blame It on Mr. Rogers: Why Young Adults Feel So Entitled July 5, 2007; Page B5 Don Chance, a finance professor at Louisiana State University, says it dawned on him last spring. The semester was ending, and as usual, students were making a pilgrimage to his office, asking for the extra points needed to lift their grades to A's. "They felt so entitled," he recalls, "and it just hit me. We can blame Mr. Rogers." Fred Rogers, the late TV icon, told several generations of children that they were "special" just for being whoever they were. He meant well, and he was a sterling role model in many ways. But what often got lost in his self-esteem-building patter was the idea that being special comes from working hard and having high expectations for yourself. Now Mr. Rogers, like Dr. Spock before him, has been targeted for re-evaluation. And he's not the only one. As educators and researchers struggle to define the new parameters of parenting, circa 2007, some are revisiting the language of child ego-boosting. What are the downsides of telling kids they're special? Is it a mistake to have children call us by our first names? When we focus all conversations on our children's lives, are we denying them the insights found when adults talk about adult things? Some are calling for a recalibration of the mind-sets and catch-phrases that have taken hold in recent decades. Among the expressions now being challenged: "You're special." On the Yahoo Answers Web site, a discussion thread about Mr. Rogers begins with this posting: "Mr. Rogers spent years telling little creeps that he liked them just the way they were. He should have been telling them there was a lot of room for improvement. ... Nice as he was, and as good as his intentions may have been, he did a disservice." Signs of narcissism among college students have been rising for 25 years, according to a recent study led by a San Diego State University psychologist. Obviously, Mr. Rogers alone can't be blamed for this. But as Prof. Chance sees it, "he's representative of a culture of excessive doting." Prof. Chance teaches many Asian-born students, and says they accept whatever grade they're given; they see B's and C's as an indication that they must work harder, and that their elders assessed them accurately. They didn't grow up with Mr. Rogers or anyone else telling them they were born special. By contrast, American students often view lower grades as a reason to "hit you up for an A because they came to class and feel they worked hard," says Prof. Chance. He wishes more parents would offer kids this perspective: "The world owes you nothing. You have to work and compete. If you want to be special, you'll have to prove it." "They're just children." When kids are rude, self-absorbed or disrespectful, some parents allow or endure it by saying, "Well, they're just children." The phrase is a worthy one when it's applied to a teachable moment, such as telling kids not to stick their fingers in electrical sockets. But as an excuse or as justification for unacceptable behavior, "They're just children" is just misguided. "Call me Cindy." Is it appropriate to place kids on the same level as adults, with all of us calling each other by our first names? On one hand, the familiarity can mark a loving closeness between child and adult. But on the other hand, when a child calls an adult Mr. or Ms., it helps him recognize that status is earned by age and experience. It's also a reminder to respect your elders. "Tell me about your day." It is crucial to talk to kids about their lives, and that dialogue can enrich the whole family. However, parents also need to discuss their own lives and experiences, says Alvin Rosenfeld, a Manhattan-based child psychiatrist who studies family interactions. In America today, life often begins with the anointing of "His Majesty, the Fetus," he says. From then on, many parents focus their conversations on their kids. Today's parents "are the best-educated generation ever," says Dr. Rosenfeld. "So why do our kids see us primarily discussing kids' schedules and activities?" He encourages parents to talk about their passions and interests; about politics, business, world events. "Because everything is child-centered today, we're depriving children of adults," he says. "If they never see us as adults being adults, how will they deal with important matters when it is their world?" Write to Jeffrey Zaslow at [email protected]3
Posts: 46,901

07-09-2007, 02:23 PM	#31
Calcountry Shoot the tube Join Date: Oct 2003 Casino cash: $7527870	geesh, if Mr. Rogers caused all that, one can only imagine the article someone will post 15 years from now about all the toxicity caused by Rosie O' dumshit.
Posts: 29,485

07-09-2007, 02:23 PM	#33
jidar MVP Join Date: May 2005 Location: a Casino cash: $10004900	this is obvious but doesn't go far enough. We over coddle in the name of fairness. For instance I have 2 children, a 13 year old daughter and a 10 year old boy. If I let my daughter do something because shes old enough but my not son then my wife will get pissed and say it's not fair. No it's perfectly **ing fair because she's older. Yes it sucks for my son at that moment, and yes he's disappointed, but that's life and he needs to learn to deal with all of that. Kids need to fail, they need to be told when they suck, they need to experience disappointment and perceived unfairness. They need to be exposed to things that prepare them for a potentialy harsh world because that might be what they end up in. And besides, if they aren't their life will be **ing boring and they will go through it depressed and unhappy without really knowing why. But at the same time they need to be protected a bit and brought along slowly, so how slow is slow enough? I propose the following litmus test: If you keep your kids from playing some video games to protect them, then you're over doing it.
Posts: 5,502

07-09-2007, 02:36 PM	#37
Bob Dole King Shit of **** Mountain Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Texarkana, Texas Casino cash: $-1304563	Wow. If Zaslow starts a cult, Bob Dole is going to sign up.
Posts: 51,588

07-09-2007, 04:09 PM	#41
Adept Havelock Obligatory Thoughtcriminal Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Flux,awaiting an observer Casino cash: $10004900	Blaming Mr. Rogers for this makes as much sense as blaming Buck Rogers, IMO. Whatever scapegoat makes you happy, Mr. K. Personally, I think it's Gabe Kaplan's fault. __________________ No matter how cynical you are, it is impossible to keep up. -Lily Tomlin I'd rather be a climbing monkey than a falling angel. -Terry Pratchett
Posts: 14,305

07-09-2007, 04:10 PM	#42
Direckshun __ Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $2033447	Post hoc ergo propter hoc.
Posts: 59,693

07-09-2007, 05:57 PM	#44
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-652449 VARSITY	I do my best to offset this by whispering mean things to children in grocery stores. "Psst, I heard that your mom is going to abandon you when she gets to the frozen foods." "Psst, I'm a gypsy. You're going to get lost in the woods and die." "Psst, that's not your mom. That's a crazy nurse who stole you from the hospital." I think this sort of thing really helps to ground them. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,465

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