LJ's father hurt by his remarks

[Sure-Oz]

http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/1534253.html

Posted on Tue, Oct. 27, 2009
Larry Johnson’s father among those hurt by his remarks
By KENT BABB
The Kansas City Star

His voice comes through soft but pointed. He remembers his childhood in the Jim Crow South and understands the daggers of inequality and the tarnish of discrimination.

“I went through that,” he said. “My generation.”

Larry Johnson Sr. said that he vowed so many years ago that he would teach his children to treat everyone with compassion. He said he raised them to consider everyone equal, regardless of race, gender, beliefs or sexual orientation. He said it hurts that his son, Chiefs running back Larry Johnson, used gay slurs in public two times in 24 hours.

“That’s just not who we are and not what we believe,” said the elder Johnson, 56. “It’s not how he was raised.

“It’s tough for me as a father.”

He said young Larry learned that hateful or inappropriate words are “just not tolerated.”

On Tuesday, Johnson learned that lesson again. After he issued an apology, the Chiefs instructed him to stay away from their headquarters and barred him from all team activities. Johnson remains on the roster, and he will continue to be paid. He was similarly benched for three weeks last season before being suspended by the NFL because of his alleged involvement in separate skirmishes with two women at Kansas City nightspots.

The Chiefs did not say how long Johnson would be out or whether he might face further punishment from the team or the league. An NFL spokesman said this week that the league is investigating the matter. But Johnson wasn’t at the team’s complex Tuesday, and his locker was undisturbed.

It was at that locker where Johnson muttered a gay slur to reporters on Monday morning, hours after he posted disparaging remarks on his Twitter profile about Chiefs coach Todd Haley’s lack of football playing experience.

“Get your bundle of sticks ass out of here,” Johnson said after saying he wouldn’t speak publicly until Thursday, his normal day of meeting with the media.

On Tuesday, Johnson apologized in a statement released by his agent, Peter Schaffer. Neither incident was addressed specifically, and the apology was directed toward Haley, the Chiefs’ fans, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell and Johnson’s teammates.

“I regret my actions,” the statement read. “The words were used by me in frustration, and they were not appropriate. I did not intend to offend anyone, but that is no excuse for what I said.”

Rashad Robinson, senior programs director for the Gay & Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, said Johnson’s apology was a good start. Robinson said it was a sign that Johnson takes seriously the inflammatory nature of the slurs, and Robinson said he hopes Johnson learned the hard way that words can be damaging.

“For him to use the word and feel that it’s OK,” Robinson said, “it’s disappointing and really reminds us of the ongoing challenges we have in our community.

“We hope the statement is the first step. He has a real opportunity here. There are kids no doubt being bullied in Kansas City and across the country. This is one of the many words that get hurled at them to … feel ashamed of who they are. He (Johnson) is in an opportunity to be a role model for young people.”

Johnson’s father was his role model, and the old coach said his son’s words didn’t match what he was taught. Johnson Sr., the defensive line coach at Penn State University, was raised in Williamston, N.C., and he remembers the segregated water fountains and the split schools.

He said that his son is not homophobic and that he was raised with an emphasis on equality.

“Both sides of the world,” Johnson Sr. called it, and he said his son grew up knowing the difference between right and wrong.

The problem for Johnson is that he hasn’t always put his upbringing to good use. His Chiefs’ career has been stained by messy incidents, arrests and an attitude the team hoped had improved as he approaches his 30th birthday.

About a year ago, around the time Johnson was benched and suspended, Johnson tried to cleanse some parts of his life and the way he was perceived. He hired a new agent, Schaffer, who wouldn’t coddle him, and that was part of the plan to reinvent Johnson as a self-aware, if not reformed, NFL player.

“If someone is doing something I don’t perceive as being socially acceptable,” Schaffer said, “I express myself. But at the end of the day, the client makes the decision.

“I really believe that Larry Johnson has matured a great deal in the last 18 months.”

But then Sunday happened, and Johnson turned to Twitter. This message was posted to Johnson’s profile about three hours after the Chiefs lost 37-7 to the San Diego Chargers: “My father played for the coach from ‘rememeber the titans’. Our coach played golf. My father played for redskins briefley. Our coach. Nuthn.”

Johnson Sr. said he spoke with his son about the tweets and that, while he was flattered that his son was trying to compliment his father’s coaching abilities, he could have found a more diplomatic way of doing it.

“Could he have done it a little differently?” the elder Johnson said. “Sure.”

Larry Johnson later posted two derogatory references to gays, including writing to one of his Twitter followers that his profile included a “bundle of sticks pic.”

Through a spokesman, Chiefs chairman Clark Hunt referred The Kansas City Star to the team’s statement on Johnson’s benching, which said the Chiefs are “continuing to investigate the alleged comments made by Larry Johnson. Until that review is complete, the Chiefs have instructed Larry to refrain from practicing with the Chiefs or participating in other team activities.”

Haley said he hoped that the Chiefs’ latest obstacle would somehow make the team tougher, similar to a practice last week in a cold, steady rain.

“I want, first and foremost, a mentally tough team,” Haley said, “and this will be part of that hardening.

“I truly believe that this will all be part of making us a team that is competitive and has a chance to win Super Bowls.”

Johnson Sr. said his son wants to be a part of the Chiefs as the team moves toward the future. He said his son still enjoys football and wants to finish his career in Kansas City. He said he fears that, despite the progress he said his son made in the past 12 months, that Johnson will now be known as an angry bigot who’s not in control of his words or actions. Johnson Sr. said his son’s latest outburst began with frustration and ended with a mistake — a mistake the elder Johnson said he hopes does not define his son.

“Now you’re labeled,” Johnson Sr. said. “It’s unfortunate.”

He said his son is different.

“He does not hate gays. That’s not Larry, and that’s not our family,” he said. “He’s my son. You can’t disown him. We just talk to him, listen to him, and help him move forward.”

@ Go to KansasCity.com and the Red Zone for the latest news on Larry Johnson and the Chiefs.

[KCrockaholic]

Originally Posted by KcChiefsKing

This.


Side note. If he would have called the reporters pussies, would he have to apologize to all women?

Just their pussies.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

He needs to apologize to the team and coach more so than he does to people he "offended" calling them faqqots.

The whole gay organizations getting in the middle of this doens't make any sense. Kinda like the clowns Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton when they get in the middle of something considered racially motivated, or when they want to skew it that way.

I'm more than sure LJ doesn't hate gays. I don't hate gays. Doesn't mean I don't use the word faqqot a lot. And I bet he does too. A lot of people do, and to be honest I don't think it's at all like calling a back person the N-word. It's much different.

Should have LJ handled that differently? Sure. His remarks about the coach reflect the team, which is the most important. I understand his frustrations with the team. They havent won nearly shit in 2-3 seasons. 7-31 is the Chiefs record since the last few seasons including this current one. LJ's performaces reflect this obviously. His comments made about the coach and his credentials are very uncalled for. There are coaches out there that are great coaches that never played professionally. Belichick to be named....and Haley grew up around some of the greatest football people EVER.

The whole faqqot calling is stupid. It's minor. The reporters need to sack up and grow a pair. Jesus Christ...seriously. It's a locker room after a game in which they just got their asses kicked....this isn't nearly as bad as some of the shit players like Michael Irvin used to do. Guys call eachother faqqots, queers, pussies, etc all the time. It doesn't require an apology or press conference apologizing. Uncalled for IMO. Stupid, waste of time. If anything, suspend his ass for his comments to the coach.

I hope you're kidding. It wasn't just a reporter. It wasn't joking around with his pals. He called a fan a bundle of sticks and then told him he must hang out in some gay area. What do you mean he doesn't have to apologize? If I ever did that where I worked, I wouldn't even have a chance to apologize. I would be canned and HR would do everything they could to avoid a PR nightmare.

Don't excuse somebody for being a dipshit.

[chiefzilla1501]

I know I'll get grilled for this, but what do we actually know about his Dad other than the stuff they wrote in this puff piece? Sure, I feel for the Dad, but how do we know he's not responsible for LJ growing up and becoming what he is? Sorry, but the majority of the time, a kid is a reflection of his upbringing. Kids make mistakes, but this is the umpteenth time this has happened.

Andy Reid's a nice guy. And his players think he's the most amazing "Dad" to them. Years later, you learn that he paid no attention to his kids and they grew up as reject junkies.

Again, I'm sure he's a nice guy. But let's not pretend that parents aren't at least somewhat responsible for the behavior of their kids, especially when it happens over and over again.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I hope you're kidding. It wasn't just a reporter. It wasn't joking around with his pals. He called a fan a pillowbiter and then told him he must hang out in some gay area. What do you mean he doesn't have to apologize? If I ever did that where I worked, I wouldn't even have a chance to apologize. I would be canned and HR would do everything they could to avoid a PR nightmare.

Don't excuse somebody for being a dipshit.

Real workplace/office scenario etc ====> NFL locker room.

You don't think there's a difference in the kind of environment/slang speech that's said????

So what he called a fan a faqqot? Who cares. Let me ask you this? Have you ever called someone a faqqot/queer etc? And when you did, did you apologize later? I bet you didn't.

People need to quit comparing real life workplaces etc to the NFL lifestyle because it's much different. Football is a ****ing game people. I understand it's considered their "job"...but let's be honest...they didn't go to college to ****ing get a degree to get a job outside of football. They went to college to improve their game to eventually get drafted into the NFL. This whole, "well I'd get called into HR and would get canned immediately" really to be honest doesn't apply here.

This is a league, where there are dog killers, murderers, people who've committed manslaughter, players use the N-word like it's their second language, all kinds of cursing and slurs being yelled at on the sidelines. The NFL is much different than "your job".

Look at Haley....perfect example. The way he talks to players, going ballistic at refs on the sidelines yelling out F-bombs left and right. If "your boss" at "your job" would do something like that would he be canned?!?!? There's a good chance he might. In your words he'd be canned immediately and HR would get in the middle of it. Like I said......the NFL and your job comparison doesn't apply here. MUCH different.

Example:
Scenario #1 NFL locker room
Player A says to Player B "Yo ni**er grab me that towel over there"

Result: Player B gets the towel for Player A, and that's that. End of story. Player A now has his towel that he needed.

Scenario #2 Your Office Cubicle
Worker A says to Worker B "Yo ni**er, grab me that stack of papers over there"

Result: Worker B gets offended, goes to management to complain, Worker A gets called in, gets reprimanded or possibly even fired, HR tries to cover up this situation from being "racially motivated"

[007]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I know I'll get grilled for this, but what do we actually know about his Dad other than the stuff they wrote in this puff piece? Sure, I feel for the Dad, but how do we know he's not responsible for LJ growing up and becoming what he is? Sorry, but the majority of the time, a kid is a reflection of his upbringing. Kids make mistakes, but this is the umpteenth time this has happened.

Andy Reid's a nice guy. And his players think he's the most amazing "Dad" to them. Years later, you learn that he paid no attention to his kids and they grew up as reject junkies.

Again, I'm sure he's a nice guy. But let's not pretend that parents aren't at least somewhat responsible for the behavior of their kids, especially when it happens over and over again.

To some extent you may be right. However, sometimes the nut falls far from the tree and rolls down the hill too.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I know I'll get grilled for this, but what do we actually know about his Dad other than the stuff they wrote in this puff piece? Sure, I feel for the Dad, but how do we know he's not responsible for LJ growing up and becoming what he is? Sorry, but the majority of the time, a kid is a reflection of his upbringing. Kids make mistakes, but this is the umpteenth time this has happened.

Andy Reid's a nice guy. And his players think he's the most amazing "Dad" to them. Years later, you learn that he paid no attention to his kids and they grew up as reject junkies.

Again, I'm sure he's a nice guy. But let's not pretend that parents aren't at least somewhat responsible for the behavior of their kids, especially when it happens over and over again.

Eh I dont know how much I'd put into this. From what I've heard/read LJ's upbringing as a child was as normal as one could be. He wasn't raised on the streets, his Dad gave him for the most part, a level head.

This is just actions of an overpaid young athlete with a "**** you I'm rich, I don't care" attitude if anything. Money, fame, celeb stature can change a person. And it really all starts in college. You see stars being groomed at big programs that have lots of booster money etc in their programs...and these guys are being given money under the table, being given cars etc. They're treated like kings at their respected schools. The "**** you I can do what I want, I'm better than you" attitude starts there.

[KCrockaholic]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I know I'll get grilled for this, but what do we actually know about his Dad other than the stuff they wrote in this puff piece? Sure, I feel for the Dad, but how do we know he's not responsible for LJ growing up and becoming what he is? Sorry, but the majority of the time, a kid is a reflection of his upbringing. Kids make mistakes, but this is the umpteenth time this has happened.

Andy Reid's a nice guy. And his players think he's the most amazing "Dad" to them. Years later, you learn that he paid no attention to his kids and they grew up as reject junkies.

Again, I'm sure he's a nice guy. But let's not pretend that parents aren't at least somewhat responsible for the behavior of their kids, especially when it happens over and over again.

This is very true. But like everyone here we don't know Larry's dad. You can say nice things, or whatever but the bottom line is nobody knows what kind of person he really is. Maybe he treated his wife poorly and that's where LJ learned how to treat women by spitting drinks on them, and shoving them around. He had to have learned it somewhere. Its just like dealing with a 3 year old.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

Real workplace/office scenario etc ====> NFL locker room.

You don't think there's a difference in the kind of environment/slang speech that's said????

So what he called a fan a faqqot? Who cares. Let me ask you this? Have you ever called someone a faqqot/queer etc? And when you did, did you apologize later? I bet you didn't.

People need to quit comparing real life workplaces etc to the NFL lifestyle because it's much different. Football is a ****ing game people. I understand it's considered their "job"...but let's be honest...they didn't go to college to ****ing get a degree to get a job outside of football. They went to college to improve their game to eventually get drafted into the NFL. This whole, "well I'd get called into HR and would get canned immediately" really to be honest doesn't apply here.

This is a league, where there are dog killers, murderers, people who've committed manslaughter, players use the N-word like it's their second language, all kinds of cursing and slurs being yelled at on the sidelines. Football is much different than "you job".

Look at Haley....perfect example. The way he talks to players, going ballistic at refs on the sidelines yelling out F-bombs left and right. If "your boss" at "your job" would do something like that would he be canned?!?!? Absolutely. In your words he'd be canned immediately and HR would get in the middle of it. Like I said......the NFL and your job comparison doesn't apply here. MUCH different.

You are absolutely wrong on this.

There is a distinct difference between the things you say in private, and the things you say in public. Players may use the "N word" in the locker room or around friends, but if they ever said it in an interview, they would get grilled to pieces for it. It would be on Oprah, ESPN, and draw all kinds of negative attention and create a distraction for the NFL and the team that they shouldn't have to deal with.
If they called a fan that? I can guarantee there'd be all kinds of shit to pay. And apparently you haven't worked in an office before. Lots of people, whether entry level or vice president, throw the F bomb left and right. The minute they say a slur, it's a huge HR concern.

You're pretending it's not a problem. Because of what you claim is one innocent comment, Haley and the team is forced to deal with a major distraction, you've got gay and lesbian groups coming out the wazoo harassing the Chiefs, Roger Goodell, Haley, Pioli. And yes, given that LJ is a public figure, his message reached a lot of people and there are a lot of people who were probably offended.

Playing in the NFL is a job. You represent the NFL. You represent the team. It doesn't give you license to be above the rules. What he did was a completely dipshit thing to do. You can't defend stupidity. A few years ago, Tagliabue let players get away with everything, and players took advantage of that and embarrassed the league (hello Pac-man and Chris Henry). That's not going to happen again.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

You are absolutely wrong on this.

There is a distinct difference between the things you say in private, and the things you say in public. Players may use the "N word" in the locker room or around friends, but if they ever said it in an interview, they would get grilled to pieces for it. It would be on Oprah, ESPN, and draw all kinds of negative attention and create a distraction for the NFL and the team that they shouldn't have to deal with.
If they called a fan that? I can guarantee there'd be all kinds of shit to pay. And apparently you haven't worked in an office before. Lots of people, whether entry level or vice president, throw the F bomb left and right. The minute they say a slur, it's a huge HR concern.

You're pretending it's not a problem. Because of what you claim is one innocent comment, Haley and the team is forced to deal with a major distraction, you've got gay and lesbian groups coming out the wazoo harassing the Chiefs, Roger Goodell, Haley, Pioli. And yes, given that LJ is a public figure, his message reached a lot of people and there are a lot of people who were probably offended.

Playing in the NFL is a job. You represent the NFL. You represent the team. It doesn't give you license to be above the rules. What he did was a completely dipshit thing to do. You can't defend stupidity. A few years ago, Tagliabue let players get away with everything, and players took advantage of that and embarrassed the league (hello Pac-man and Chris Henry). That's not going to happen again.

I'm not saying LJ was right....I just don't think it needs a big press conference with an apology. In my first original post, the coach bashing is a lot more serious than calling some KC star douchebag media member and/or a fan a faqqot. Should he go up maybe privately and apologize? Sure I guess he could do that....but these gay organizations etc getting in the middle of this....uncalled for and is no different than Jackson or Sharpton getting in the media calling people racists for whatever reasons. "Oops, someone called someone a faqqot, oh look he's a celebrity/athlete, he better issue some kind of apology or else". That's ****ing ignorant and stupid IMO.

And yes I do work in an office setting. I know what this is all about. And I dont think you're understanding what I'm saying. If your boss talked to you the way Haley talks to his players and yells at the refs....your boss would get fired....at least I know mine would.

It's a completely different scenario. And this wasn't even an interview. From what I remember he told a media member to "get your faqqot ass outa here" Does that require a press conference and an apology open to the public? No. It's stupid and a waste of time. You have to remember the press are the ones that enter the locker rooms after a game to ask frustrated players how they feel after an asskicking. Now I'm not saying what LJ did was right. I just think this is being WAAAY blown out of water here. So he called someone a faqqot....so what, make him apologize to him and move on like it didn't happen. BFD.

There's cussing/sluring ALL OVER the NFL whether it's on the field, sidelines, in the locker room, during film sessions. It's a game that involves coaches and players. Are the coaches considered their boss? Yes, but it's still a coach-player relationship.....MUCH DIFFERENT than the relationship you have with your boss at your job. Your boss I doubt holds team meetings with your co-workers and chews them out cussing at them. I'm surprised as hell if they do, because mine would be fired one the spot if they did that. I can imagine what watching film with Haley or Gunther was like. There were times I remember where Gunther would tell Herm to go upstairs because he needed to chew out the defense, because "sometimes they need to be talked to that way" would be Gun's excuse.

That doesn't work in an office setting in the real world. I don't care what you say. Like I said this is a game where there's a player-coach relationship that is nothing like an employee/supervisor relationship in the real jobplace.

And I don't get youre argument about Tagliabue. Because Goodell has also had problems with Pac Man, Vick, Plaxico, Stallworth. Coaches and commissioners aren't baby sitters. Whether who's the coach / commish, players are gonna do what they're gonna do and it's whether or not they get caught...a lot of them are young, and have shit tons of money to blow. That presents immediate problems if they can't make THEIR OWN rational decisions.

[jAZ]

I'll just post this in response to several posts.

I think we can all agree that LJ's comments were no joke. So let's put that assumption aside entirely. And I'll concent that in other situtations, it's entirely possible to say someone is a "f@ggot" and have it be a joke. That's not what happened here.

Beyond that, most every common use of the term "f@ggot" is intended as a pejorative. And "f@ggot" is an extreme pejorative that is has the effect it does specifically because it elicits an overwhelmingly negative reaction based on the visceral disgust straight men often have at the thought of two men french kissing each other or having anal sex.

Anyone who's ever had someone close to them, that they really care about, that is gay... will recognize how harsh and just unacceptable that term is. And when used as a pejorative, it's *exactly* like "n!gger" but for an entirely different community.

And if you hate the mere thought homosexuality, that's real hate.

[Otter]

Originally Posted by jAZ

I'll just post this in response to several posts.

I think we can all agree that LJ's comments were no joke. So let's put that assumption aside entirely. And I'll concent that in other situtations, it's entirely possible to say someone is a "f@ggot" and have it be a joke. That's not what happened here.

Beyond that, most every common use of the term "f@ggot" is intended as a pejorative. And "f@ggot" is an extreme pejorative that is has the effect it does specifically because it elicits an overwhelmingly negative reaction based on the visceral disgust straight men often have at the thought of two men french kissing each other or having anal sex.

Anyone who's ever had someone close to them, that they really care about, that is gay... will recognize how harsh and just unacceptable that term is. And when used as a pejorative, it's *exactly* like "n!gger" but for an entirely different community.

And if you hate the mere thought homosexuality, that's real hate.

If I was gay and my boyfriend gave two shits about what somebody they never met, will never meet and has no part in his life started caring about being called a "pillowbiter" by the above person in question I'd donkey punch him with a brick in the back of the head during anal.

I mean how big of a **** do you have to be to get upset over this if you were gay?

Maybe people need to learn to brush things off and quit being a whining, sniveling little bitch about such little things in life. I hope whoever you're speaking of in the above paragraph is OK and Larry using the term "pillowbiter" didn't ruin his life...let us know if he makes it to work tomorrow or if he has to be hospitalized for year of therapy will ya Jaz?

I don't like Larry either and I'll be glad when he's gone but turning this into a gay rights parade is ridiculous to feel sorry because someone used the word "pillowbiter".

Cry me a ****ing river. Did these people grow up in gay candy land that it still effects them to read in the paper an athlete who they never met used the term "pillowbiter"?

Give me a break.

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by jAZ

I'll just post this in response to several posts.

I think we can all agree that LJ's comments were no joke. So let's put that assumption aside entirely. And I'll concent that in other situtations, it's entirely possible to say someone is a "f@ggot" and have it be a joke. That's not what happened here.

I agree it's not a joke, LJ's statement was out of frustration, but faqqot and the way he used it really was taken out of context a lot because of what you mentioned below. Guys use that term A LOT, but for different reasons than calling someone gay.

Beyond that, most every common use of the term "f@ggot" is intended as a pejorative. And "f@ggot" is an extreme pejorative that is has the effect it does specifically because it elicits an overwhelmingly negative reaction based on the visceral disgust straight men often have at the thought of two men french kissing each other or having anal sex.

I will mostly agree with this.

Anyone who's ever had someone close to them, that they really care about, that is gay... will recognize how harsh and just unacceptable that term is. And when used as a pejorative, it's *exactly* like "n!gger" but for an entirely different community.

This I don't agree with at all. One deals with race history of slavery and one deals with sexual preference. Completely different.

[SPchief]

get this shit out of the lounge and into DC...Seriously do you guys read what you post?

[CoMoChief]

Originally Posted by Otter

If I was gay and my boyfriend gave two shits about what somebody they never met, will never meet and has no part in his life started caring about being called a "pillowbiter" by the above person in question I'd donkey punch him with a brick in the back of the head during anal.

I mean how big of a **** do you have to be to get upset over this if you were gay?

Maybe people need to learn to brush things off and quit being a whining, sniveling little bitch about such little things in life. I hope whoever you're speaking of in the above paragraph is OK and Larry using the term "pillowbiter" didn't ruin his life...let us know if he makes it to work tomorrow or if he has to be hospitalized for year of therapy will ya Jaz?

I don't like Larry either and I'll be glad when he's gone but turning this into a gay rights parade is ridiculous to feel sorry because someone used the word "pillowbiter".

Cry me a ****ing river. Did these people grow up in gay candy land that it still effects them to read in the paper an athlete who they never met used the term "pillowbiter"?

Give me a break.

Pretty much how I think of this whole thing. The pussification of America continues...because "Times have changed" Thou shall not call people faqqots because the gay community will get angry and march their parade into your backyard.

What happens 100 years from now when people are whining because people with Beastiality fetishes want to be treated fairly??? I'm serious, yes I'm getting off track here but the point is will times change in society that will allow this? When will this kinda shit end? This is already happening in places like rural Utah and Montana. "Hey I wanna **** my dog or cow, and it should be okay to do so, I want to be treated fairly and have protected rights". REALLY?!?!?

[jAZ]

Originally Posted by CoMoChief

This I don't agree with at all. One deals with race history of slavery and one deals with sexual preference. Completely different.

That comes down to an assumption that being gay isn't as much an element of who you are as is skin color. I have a somewhat neuanced view on that subject.

I there is a range of people who call themselves gay. Some of who are gay for personal reasons (lifestyle, lack of success with opposite success, etc). But a portion are biologically defined as gay in the same way that someone is biologically black or white. And while some people focus on the lifestylers, I think the only thing that matters ultimately is that some portion of them are really, truely, biologically gay.