Chiefs Why I support Todd Haley - Page 3

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 06:46 PM

I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away.

If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't.

Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach.

Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders.

Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years.

How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail.

How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle.

People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole.

The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while.

In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out.
People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them.

The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels.

Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved.

I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you).
We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him.

He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired.

Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?

**DeezNutz** · 12-12-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aturnis

Every team that has talent and loses is ill prepared dumbass. Haley just has the balls to say it. Other coaches make excuses. Haley hasn't fallen back on the obvious injury excuse.

We're going to likely tie an NFL record for blowout losses this season, but we had a well-coached group.

We weren't even competitive in a large number of games throughout Haley's time with the Chiefs. He was a piece of shit HC.

Urc Burry · 12-12-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brianfo

He wanted best athlete available. Your argument is full of fail. Die in an aids infested tree douche

So Aaron Curry? Dumbass

Pasta Little Brioni · 12-12-2011, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papi

Don't know if it's valid, but there was a report Haley considered playing Stanzi in NY. Shoulda pulled the trigger at halftime on that one. It was Haley's call and I just viewed it as a lack of desire to try and win/compete.

I find that hard to believe considering they were down by eleventy billion points at halftime and he still never put him in. The only way he was going in was if Falco broke in 2.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

Bullshit. It's the NFL, not college ball. There is no excuse to lose by that much that many times, especially at Arrowhead. Lots of teams have injuries, but they don't get blown out by Miami at home.

Not having a QB is a good excuse. Stanzi is a third stringer on most rosters and Palko isn't on any roster at all.

Again. Let me pose this question. Does anyone hear think that Aaron Rodgers gets blown out of those games? What about Jason Campbell?

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JD10367

I think both Haley and Sparano got raw deals. There are a lot worse guys you could have for coaches. And might. McDaniels, Norv, et cetera.

Haley was hamstrung by Pioli. As Parcells said when he left New England back in 1996-1997, "they expect me to cook the meal when they don't let me buy the groceries". in Haley's case, he was told, "Hey, here's your food list. Make us something tasty. Oh, by the way, as soon as you start cooking, we're taking away your sea scallops (Charles), your barbecue pork ribs (Berry), and your cheesecake dessert (Moeaki). Oh, yeah, and the main ingredient we're forcing you to use is cheap steak (Cassel)... and we'll be taking that away halfway through your cooking prep and replacing it with some dried-up fried chicken from three days ago (Palko). Oh, yeah, and, by the way... we have a shitload of money and could buy you better ingredients, but we just don't want to. Now make us a gourmet meal, kthxbye."

Wow, when you put it like that....

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Papi

Don't know if it's valid, but there was a report Haley considered playing Stanzi in NY. Shoulda pulled the trigger at halftime on that one. It was Haley's call and I just viewed it as a lack of desire to try and win/compete.

There's also multiple reports that Haley's been mulling resigning for weeks.

The lack of desire to try to win/compete may have had more to do with the situation than because of a character flaw.

aturnis · 12-12-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

I find that hard to believe considering they were down by eleventy billion points at halftime and he still never put him in. The only way he was going in was if Falco broke in 2.

Almost put him in in NY and Pitt I believe. I wonder if Haley wanted to stick it to Pioli by not playing him, even though, he is and always has been MUCH better than Palko.

Pasta Little Brioni · 12-12-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Not having a QB is a good excuse. Stanzi is a third stringer on most rosters and Palko isn't on any roster at all.

Again. Let me pose this question. Does anyone hear think that Aaron Rodgers gets blown out of those games? What about Jason Campbell?

How many team records for ass beatings at Arrowhead would it take for you to give up on the guy. The entire top 10? This team has been a god damn embarrasment far too many times in the "Haley era".

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeezNutz

We're going to likely tie an NFL record for blowout losses this season, but we had a well-coached group.

We weren't even competitive in a large number of games throughout Haley's time with the Chiefs. He was a piece of shit HC.

If Pioli gets Haley a good QB, we don't get those blowouts.

If Pioli didn't wait 3 years to bring in a 5th round rookie and actually tried to bring in a veteran backup who can throw beyond 20 yards, we don't get those blowouts.

The first two blowouts were on coaching. The last 3 blowouts probably would have been avoided with a better QB.

**DeezNutz** · 12-12-2011, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

There's also multiple reports that Haley's been mulling resigning for weeks.

The lack of desire to try to win/compete may have had more to do with the situation than because of a character flaw.

Contradictory. If Haley was "mailing it in," he's a ****ing pussy, in addition to being a shitty coach.

We'll suffer through one more failed hire from The Tree, and then perhaps we'll get to fire Pioli.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PGM

How many team records for ass beatings at Arrowhead would it take for you to give up on the guy. The entire top 10? This team has been a god damn embarrasment far too many times in the "Haley era".

Because the consensus here is that we get our ass beat because of effort.

Talent is a huge part of the consideration. Our offense does NOT have talent to catch up when our defense isn't great. Against Miami, Haley isn't going to "motivate" Cassel to learn how to pick up a blitz.

Scheme is the other consideration. We talk about lack of preparedness. We know Romeo always prepares his defense. But he gets outcoached on way too many occasions, and I truly believe it's because it's an obsolete scheme. There are plenty of offenses more than capable of beating our defense.

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If Pioli gets Haley a good QB, we don't get those blowouts.
.

Whatever.

The Bills were raping our defense from the get-go in the season opener.

Same shit happened last year in Denver.

KCUnited · 12-12-2011, 07:12 PM

Thought I was at the Coalition reading the op.

chiefzilla1501 · 12-12-2011, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omega

Whatever.

The Bills were raping our defense from the get-go in the season opener.

Same shit happened last year in Denver.

The Bills beat us because of a total lack of preparation. The early season is all on Haley.

The Denver game... if you'll recall, Cassel completely whiffed on several key first down passes to start the game. Mike McCarthy is a good coach. But do you think Matt Cassel is going to win McCarthy the games where his defense is giving up 35 points?

Hammock Parties · 12-12-2011, 07:14 PM

Todd Haley fans, give us your tears

12-12-2011, 06:46 PM
chiefzilla1501 In Search of a Life Join Date: Aug 2008 Casino cash: $-1725503	Why I support Todd Haley I know this is going to get me shit. Fire away. If it's true that Haley pushed back on Tyson Jackson, that tells you everything you need to know. Scott Pioli did NOT build a team around his head coach. He forced his coach to run the only system he knows. Know why Haley called Jackson a "system player"? Because Tyson Jackson is only a 3-4 DE in a 2-gap, Romeo 3-4. Does any NFL team run this defense anymore? Even the Patriots don't. Case study. What defense is Thomas Dimitroff running in Atlanta? You guessed it. A 4-3. That's because good GMs adjust their philosophy to fit the coach. Look at the new candidates for head coach. It's going to be from the tree. You know how I know that? 1) because Pioli has shown croneyism this entire time. 2) because he is so stuck on one offensive and defensive philosophy that he needs to hire a coach who follows his marching orders. Not only should we question if the 2-gap 3-4 defense is obsolete. We have to question why Pioli would expect Haley to make a complete transition to a new defense requiring totally different personnel and turn that around in 3 years. How about the obvious? Pioli is the guy who scouted Cassel for years and believed he was the long-term starter. In 3 years, the only QBs he brought in to compete for the starting job were Tyler Palko (probably Haley's choice, but that doesn't mean Pioli didn't have the power to bring a competitive veteran option in) and a 5th round pick he waited 3 years to bring in. Fail. How about the second-most obvious? Pioli forced Haley to run a 3-4 and didn't in 3 years even try to bring in a Nose Tackle. People may get on Haley's case for not getting along with Charlie Weis. It sounds like the relationship was doomed from the start and credit Whitlock for being the only guy to figure that out. Pioli has ultimate say, but if Haley flat-out didn't want to work with the guy, then don't bring him in. Pioli has to have at least some consideration for what Haley wants. And now, because of that, haley ends up looking like the asshole. The Chiefs are finding a convenient time to fire Haley because people hate the Palko decision. First of all, his choice was Palko or a 5th round rookie. Second of all, it sounds like haley's job was pretty much gone well before Palko started a game. So no... not convinced at all that Haley starts Palko if he knows his job is safe. I wouldn't even be surprised if that was just a big **** you after a while. In 3 years, Scott Pioli forces Haley to completely change his defense and doesn't spend a dime to help him out. People say the Chiefs' effort was inconsistent. I call bullshit. This team had so many talent gaps that the only way they could win was with effort. Given the Chiefs' talent, especially at the most critical positions, it's amazing they won as many games the past 2 years as they did. You give Haley the Chargers' talent, and he takes them to the top. Not every team is going to play 100% every single game. The difference is that the best teams have enough talent that they can win even when the other team outplays them. The Chiefs brought in Kyle Orton. I was okay with that move as a 1-2 year decision. But let's be serious about one thing... that's a pretty telltale sign that Pioli is bringing in McDaniels. Haley's job was to coach up players. Many players under his watch who had any kind of upside really improved. I don't like the snake-like tactics we're seeing from our front office. It sounds like they were leaking stories about Haley to discredit him. Between the Lil Wayne concert and the party before the Bears game (after a win, mind you). We've seen firey Haley before. Even with big efforts in Chicago and Pittsburgh, it looked like he just didn't have any fire. I think he knew he was through and the front office was just waiting for a chance to fire him. He's a young coach. He's going to make mistakes. The beginning of the season was a horrible mistake. But that's not one mistake that should get you fired. Flame away. I want to know... if the GM let Haley run a defense he wanted to run, have some input on his coordinator, actually gave Haley good QBs to work with... how would we have fared? And how comfortable do people feel that the grand vision for this team as long as Pioli is here is this exact New England approach that even New England isn't using anymore?
Posts: 51,650

12-12-2011, 07:12 PM	#43
KCUnited Cheat Death Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Land of Drincoln Casino cash: $-1581756	Thought I was at the Coalition reading the op.
Posts: 36,983

12-12-2011, 07:14 PM	#45
Hammock Parties I'll be back. Join Date: Nov 2002 Casino cash: $840478	Todd Haley fans, give us your tears __________________ Chiefs game films
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