Okay, so what *is* your plan for the 2023 passrush?

[Direckshun]

Alright, it's bleeding into multiple threads, so let's forge a master thread to control all others, and into this thread we will pour our cruelty, our malice, and our will to dominate all life. Truly a thread to rule them all.

You guys shat on me when I wanted to pour two 1sts into Brian Burns. You guys shat on me when I wanted to pour two 1sts into Josh Allen. And just for fun a couple of you guys were jerks when I wanted to go sign Bradley Chubb this coming offseason.

Just a bunch of meanies.

So what is your plan, exactly? This team needs a front four that can get pressure, Karlaftis isn't developing with the speed we'd like, and Jones is the only guy who can get to the QB.

What's your plan?

Here's the free agent passrushers this coming offseason. And the Chiefs do have 11 draft picks, but only one 1st, one 2nd, and one 3rd.

Are you going to burn a 1st? You're probably going to need that 1st (plus additional ammo) to get the offensive tackle you're simultaneously complaining we need to replace Brown at LT. If you take the 1st for DL, you're tagging and/or extending Brown, and you should say so.

I assume you're cutting Frank Clark, so the Chiefs will have about $50m to play with, but this is your 2023 depth chart right now:

DE: Danna, Herring
DT: Jones,
DT:
DE: Karlaftis, Kaindoh

That's it, suckers. You're probably going to need to add two DEs, and three DTs, minimum.

Current Chiefs who will be RFA: Wharton

Current Chiefs who will be FA: Saunders, Nnadi, Dunlap, Stallworth, Shelton, Azur Kamara

So what's your plan? kccrow's? His top three DEs are Karlaftis, Mike Danna, and Dawuane Smoot. I'm underwhelmed and ashamed.

Whatever your plan is, be prepared for me to hate it. I just hate it already.

[O.city]

One way you might go a bit outside the box here.

I wonder what the plan in Tampa is? If it's gonna be a reboot, you might be able to pry Tristen Wirfs out of there and put him at RT. It would cost your 1 for sure and I don't think I'd wanna do that for a RT so I might see if he could transition to LT. IF so, which I don't see why he couldn't, that's a situation where you could get a really young ascending player.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

I'm an "either way" on it. Pay him or not, I could go either way.

I think it ends up just being a situation where actually finding an alternative is just so hard I dunno that they go into that.

Yeah, at this point I'm not too concerned either way. It's not like we have any control over it.

[O.city]

The Commanders are gonna have Sweat and Young coming up on FA the same time, I don't think they can or will pay both. There's you a DE if you wanna make a trade and pay.

I dont' think I would but it's there.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

say it with me....

Yosh Nijman.

I still wouldn't sleep on the Packers putting a 1st round tender on him.

Now that doesn't mean they wouldn't turn around and trade him anyway, but a 2nd round tender is about $4 million and takes the ball out of their hands (because someone might be willing to give that up). He was undrafted so an original round tender means dick.

So if they tender him at $4 million (and I believe they absolutely would), why not just up the ante to the $5.5 million 1st round tender so you can completely control how it progresses.

And if nobody bites on the 1st round tender, they can go hunting for the best possible 2nd round pick available and trade his rights to that team for a better 2 than we'd give up.

I don't think this is going to be as simple as you do - the Packers aren't going to be passengers in the process, IMO.

[O.city]

Plus Bakhtiari looks like a shell so they probably ain't gonna be quick to move off from him.

With Jenkings being a FA as well....I don't see it.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by O.city

The Commanders are gonna have Sweat and Young coming up on FA the same time, I don't think they can or will pay both. There's you a DE if you wanna make a trade and pay.

I dont' think I would but it's there.

I wanted him but have looked at him closer and he’s a big disappointment. He’s got Young, Payne and Allen work him and he can’t produce more?

Carlos Dunlap is on pace for more sacks this year.

I mean damn. Just sign one of these vet pass rushers for cheap instead of trading for him and paying big money

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by O.city

Plus Bakhtiari looks like a shell so they probably ain't gonna be quick to move off from him.

With Jenkings being a FA as well....I don't see it.

Right. At $5.5 million for a year, they may just leverage that into a 3-4 year deal and prepare for life after Bakhtiari. It's easily the smart play.

I agree with you - I don't see it as a likely option.

[O.city]

Originally Posted by RunKC

I wanted him but have looked at him closer and he’s a big disappointment. He’s got Young, Payne and Allen work him and he can’t produce more?

Carlos Dunlap is on pace for more sacks this year.

I mean damn. Just sign one of these vet pass rushers for cheap instead of trading for him and paying big money

I'd say that would probably be the way they end up going, basically, a repeat of last season.

Draft pick and a vet.

I'd rather have a vet that could give you a bit more than a year, but it is what it is. Just throw numbers at it and keep drafting.

[duncan_idaho]

I've kicked the idea around a little bit, but to me... targeting a DT is perhaps the most cost-efficient way to upgrade the Chiefs front 4/pass rush.

I've talked about Da'Ron Payne before, but I think that's a guy that could come in, play next to Jones, and ascend even more. He has been good this year. he's stout against the run, and he's starting to make plays as a pass rusher. His abilities are a good complement to Jones', IMO.

If the Chiefs did something like that, I think they could add more of a one-trick pony at DE, whether a draft pick or a cheaper free agent, and get a lot of production out of that person. And just basically go with bodies/numbers at DE, kind of like the Ravens have done this year.

[htismaqe]

Originally Posted by O.city

I'd say that would probably be the way they end up going, basically, a repeat of last season.

Draft pick and a vet.

I'd rather have a vet that could give you a bit more than a year, but it is what it is. Just throw numbers at it and keep drafting.

The thing that needs to be different from last year is that we need to target a situational rusher like Jerry Hughes, not a big plugger like Dunlap.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by htismaqe

The thing that needs to be different from last year is that we need to target a situational rusher like Jerry Hughes, not a big plugger like Dunlap.

Given the fact that Hughes declined to be moved at the deadline and the reports were that he chose to be closer to home and that's why he signed with Houston, I wonder if we DIDN'T reach out to him.

Frankly, it's not the direction I'd have preferred anyway. Find a young vet. I really liked the idea of an RFA offer to Dorance Armstrong, for instance. We've mentioned guys like Key and Green ad nauseum. Barnett was a guy I really liked the idea of.

Give me a toolsy 26 yr old who's underperformed a little and is looking for a pillow contract for a bounce-back. Clelin Ferrell was a previous suggestion - good call. Arden Key is likely to be a FA again. Lorenzo Carter is going to be cheap, IMO and he has great tools. I really like that idea. Rasheem Green is likely to be a FA again. Could Malik Reed be a guy who's used as a situational rusher in a strict LEO sort of role? LJ Collier is a TEXTBOOK Veachlclamation Project. Ben Banogu was really interesting coming into the draft but really hasn't done shit; he wouldn't cost a thing and is worth a look, IMO.

Zach Allen has played awfully well so he's probably priced himself into 'real' player money, but if he falls through the first wave, I'd absolutely be interested in giving him Derek Barnett's deal and I think he'd be worth it and then some.

And I'm sure there are a half dozen or more that I've missed. But go find a 25-26 yr old kid coming off his rookie deal who hasn't quite gained a footing with his present team but has some stand-out attributes to put to use as a dedicated rush specialist. And as Duncan suggested, do the same at DT; someone like Dre'Mont Jones would be interesting (but he's probably gonna get a real nice deal).

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Given the fact that Hughes declined to be moved at the deadline and the reports were that he chose to be closer to home and that's why he signed with Houston, I wonder if we DIDN'T reach out to him.

Frankly, it's not the direction I'd have preferred anyway. Find a young vet. I really liked the idea of an RFA offer to Dorance Armstrong, for instance. We've mentioned guys like Key and Green ad nauseum. Barnett was a guy I really liked the idea of.

Give me a toolsy 26 yr old who's underperformed a little and is looking for a pillow contract for a bounce-back. Clelin Ferrell was a previous suggestion - good call. Arden Key is likely to be a FA again. Lorenzo Carter is going to be cheap, IMO and he has great tools. I really like that idea. Rasheem Green is likely to be a FA again. Could Malik Reed be a guy who's used as a situational rusher in a strict LEO sort of role? LJ Collier is a TEXTBOOK Veachlclamation Project. Ben Banogu was really interesting coming into the draft but really hasn't done shit; he wouldn't cost a thing and is worth a look, IMO.

Zach Allen has played awfully well so he's probably priced himself into 'real' player money, but if he falls through the first wave, I'd absolutely be interested in giving him Derek Barnett's deal and I think he'd be worth it and then some.

And I'm sure there are a half dozen or more that I've missed. But go find a 25-26 yr old kid coming off his rookie deal who hasn't quite gained a footing with his present team but has some stand-out attributes to put to use as a dedicated rush specialist. And as Duncan suggested, do the same at DT; someone like Dre'Mont Jones would be interesting (but he's probably gonna get a real nice deal).

I mean, I could probably talk myself into splashing nice money on someone like Jones or Payne or even Fletcher Cox/Hargrave and pairing them with a second-round pass rush specialist type. If Nolan Smith's injury pushes him down at all, that would be an ideal pairing, potentially.

Payne/Jones/Smith/Karlaftis would be a pretty fantastic long-term group up front. And even if you transitioned to a 34 because Spagnuolo has moved on, that group would slide right into that alignment pretty easily...

But it's not all about Smith. BJ Ojulari, Andre Carter II, KJ Henry... there are lots of names in the second round projections the Chiefs could be in line to add who would work nicely as the speed guy. Stock is all over the place on them so it's hard to say who would be a realistic round 2 target.

Carter makes me drool, though. He's kind of a unicorn physically (6-7, 260, but can play LB and do "normal sized" LB things).

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I mean, I could probably talk myself into splashing nice money on someone like Jones or Payne or even Fletcher Cox/Hargrave and pairing them with a second-round pass rush specialist type. If Nolan Smith's injury pushes him down at all, that would be an ideal pairing, potentially.

Payne/Jones/Smith/Karlaftis would be a pretty fantastic long-term group up front. And even if you transitioned to a 34 because Spagnuolo has moved on, that group would slide right into that alignment pretty easily...

But it's not all about Smith. BJ Ojulari, Andre Carter II, KJ Henry... there are lots of names in the second round projections the Chiefs could be in line to add who would work nicely as the speed guy. Stock is all over the place on them so it's hard to say who would be a realistic round 2 target.

Carter makes me drool, though. He's kind of a unicorn physically (6-7, 260, but can play LB and do "normal sized" LB things).

Exactly.

A 3-down SDE who can muck up the works and create rush lanes for his teammates is the hard part. On his present development arc, we have that guy in Karlaftis.

Getting a dedicated edge rusher in the 2nd or 3rd round wouldn't be that difficult. It's just a question of whether or not a guy like that would be physically developed enough to contribute early.

That's where the younger veteran comes in. Someone that can show out a bit and then even act as a rotational guy if the rookie is ready. And w/ Karlaftis functional strength, you could even kick him inside on 3rd downs and pair the rookie w/ the young vet on the edges.

It's eminently doable and doesn't require that you trade 3 first round picks for Josh Allen or Brian Burns.

[Nightfyre]

Pipe dream is to find a way to trade for and extend Jeffrey Simmons. Simmons and Jones together in the middle? Good luck NFL.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by duncan_idaho

I've kicked the idea around a little bit, but to me... targeting a DT is perhaps the most cost-efficient way to upgrade the Chiefs front 4/pass rush.

I've talked about Da'Ron Payne before, but I think that's a guy that could come in, play next to Jones, and ascend even more. He has been good this year. he's stout against the run, and he's starting to make plays as a pass rusher. His abilities are a good complement to Jones', IMO.

If the Chiefs did something like that, I think they could add more of a one-trick pony at DE, whether a draft pick or a cheaper free agent, and get a lot of production out of that person. And just basically go with bodies/numbers at DE, kind of like the Ravens have done this year.

Of all the DLineman I could see the Chiefs making a very serious play for, Payne is #1 on the list if he's available. He's a hell of a lot like Jarran Reed and he's only 26.
That said, I fully expect Washington to franchise him this year as he's the only guy on their FA list worth doing it for.