Other Sports The MLB lockout thread - Page 43

Deberg_1990 · 12-02-2021, 07:06 AM

Discussssss

To our Fans:

I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together.

That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2.

I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions.

When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history.

We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams.

We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more.

To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that.

Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table.
Manfred

Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni
— MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021

Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W
— MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021

Ocotillo · 03-09-2022, 07:59 PM

I was in FL. We never offered the Int’l Draft. We did discuss it, but MLB told us they were NOT going to offer anything for it. At that point, we informed all players & agreed to no draft.

This is MLB muddying the waters & deflecting blame. Fans, pls hang in there with us.
— Max Scherzer (@Max_Scherzer) March 10, 2022

MLB and PA tonight continuing to discuss int’l draft/qualifying offer issue, per league official. MLB wants it resolved before negotiating rest of deal. League received union counter after 6pE deadline. Parties will determine number of games in season if agreement is reached.
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) March 10, 2022

It makes no sense for the season to be short-circuited by a dispute over the international draft. I get that players thought the concept came up late but it makes no sense players were so influenced to protect the awful current system by David Ortiz and others for no good reason.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 10, 2022

Sources: Indeed, the sides will talk tonight about the international draft proposal iniated by Manfred Tuesday night and put forth by the union just after the 6 pm deadline. Hope exists! https://t.co/YMAzeodtqZ
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 10, 2022

Ocotillo · 03-09-2022, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

I bet a lot of domestic players feel the same way.

MLBPA is apparently cool with a world draft though.

The Latin players were never vocal in this MLBPA negotiation until this came up.

David Ortiz, Albert Pujols and Pedro Martinez want to make sure their Dominican youth baseball system is taken care of.

I don't know if this can be resolved over collective bargaining tonight. I think they should table the issue and move on.

KC_Connection · 03-09-2022, 08:05 PM

Hope exists

Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. Although, as mentioned, if the sticking point really is an international draft for either side, that makes no sense for anyone involved.

Ocotillo · 03-09-2022, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

You think the big market clubs are the ones driving this lockout?

The international draft became a big deal with the small market teams because they were taking it on the chin with the CBT and the arbitration pool and the minimum salary. They want the international draft as a means to procure top international talent even though some of the so-called cash strapped teams like the Rays (Wander Franco), Royals (Erick Pena) and Brewers (Hedbert Perez) have signed some high profile international players in recent years.

**BigRedChief** · 03-09-2022, 08:09 PM

This has all been about the richest players. I guess all the players think they are all going to get $100+ million contracts too.

jd1020 · 03-09-2022, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

The Latin players were never vocal in this MLBPA negotiation until this came up.

David Ortiz, Albert Pujols and Pedro Martinez want to make sure their Dominican youth baseball system is taken care of.

I don't know if this can be resolved over collective bargaining tonight. I think they should table the issue and move on.

They were offered 2 years to think about it and get the details worked out while simultaneously giving them the elimination of the QO they wanted to keep. They said no. MLB said **** you and canceled more games. Then the MLBPA came back with some shit about a world draft and 1 year to work it out. They obviously arent that concerned about a draft for international players if they come back with a worse offer and less time to figure out the details.

**TribalElder** · 03-09-2022, 08:11 PM

Have a friend who is a long time baseball fanatic tell me today he is done with MLB

mentioned something about DH coming to national league along with some other bullshit changes

baseball can't get out of it's own way

KC_Connection · 03-09-2022, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ocotillo

The international draft became a big deal with the small market teams because they were taking it on the chin with the CBT and the arbitration pool and the minimum salary. They want the international draft as a means to procure top international talent even though some of the so-called cash strapped teams like the Rays (Wander Franco), Royals (Erick Pena) and Brewers (Hedbert Perez) have signed some high profile international players in recent years.

Yes, that makes sense as the big market teams dominate international free agency. I just don't know what the ramifications of such a draft will be for the kids developing in the Dominican and other countries (although why the MLBPA would be especially concerned about that in these negotiations, I'm not sure).

DJ's left nut · 03-09-2022, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TribalElder

Have a friend who is a long time baseball fanatic tell me today he is done with MLB

mentioned something about DH coming to national league along with some other bullshit changes

baseball can't get out of it's own way

I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life. Probably as informed a fan as you’ll find.

If it wasn’t for a some long term fantasy leagues I’ve been in for 25, 15 and 13 yrs respectively, I would barely even watch it anymore.

It’s just a bad product. The game is boring.

And that sucks because the talent level is absolutely ridiculous. There are so many simple fixes that could get the game back to being an action packed, exciting sport.

But inertia is crippling it.

Just give me the goddamn wheel and I’ll have it fixed by June.

DJ's left nut · 03-09-2022, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KC_Connection

Yes, that makes sense as the big market teams dominate international free agency. I just don't know what the ramifications of such a draft will be for the kids developing in the Dominican and other countries (although why the MLBPA would be especially concerned about that in these negotiations, I'm not sure).

They aren’t.

Agents are. And have simultaneously found a pressure point they can leverage.

But yeah - all in good faith from the MLBPA.

Ocotillo · 03-09-2022, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jd1020

They were offered 2 years to think about it and get the details worked out while simultaneously giving them the elimination of the QO they wanted to keep. They said no. MLB said **** you and canceled more games. Then the MLBPA came back with some shit about a world draft and 1 year to work it out. They obviously arent that concerned about a draft for international players if they come back with a worse offer and less time to figure out the details.

The international draft has been discussed in collective bargaining going back to the 1990s, so it's definitely not a secret. Owners have been proposing it in all of their offers. That's true.

I think the MLBPA did a poor job of communicating this to its constituents, especially the Latin players. Once the Latin players got wind of it, the union was stuck in the mud.

On the flip side, the small market owners agreed to up go in CBT and arbitration pool with the knowledge that they would be getting an international draft. Now that the MLBPA has soured on it, they're having cold feet about going through with this deal.

Jerm · 03-09-2022, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life. Probably as informed a fan as you’ll find.

If it wasn’t for a some long term fantasy leagues I’ve been in for 25, 15 and 13 yrs respectively, I would barely even watch it anymore.

It’s just a bad product. The game is boring.

And that sucks because the talent level is absolutely ridiculous. There are so many simple fixes that could get the game back to being an action packed, exciting sport.

But inertia is crippling it.

Just give me the goddamn wheel and I’ll have it fixed by June.

I’m curious as to what your ideas are and I’m not even trolling because I 100% agree with you…

I go back and watch random 90s highlights/games on YouTube and that’s the baseball I miss….not even talking about the roid era. Pitchers that could actually PITCH and work a count, zone, and had more than a fastball and slider. Basesteali g, defense, guys hitting for average, strategy, all along with your power guys, etc.

Not to mention how many teams, lineups, superstars, and even managers were recognizable and known…

Jerm · 03-09-2022, 08:55 PM

Oh and analytics have killed what’s great about the game too….

suzzer99 · 03-09-2022, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

They aren’t.

Agents are. And have simultaneously found a pressure point they can leverage.

But yeah - all in good faith from the MLBPA.

And the national baseball writers are basically the equivalent of Russian state media these days, in lockstep with the players, always sticking to the script, refusing to even mention cap/floor. I’m really really sick of those guys. They’re doing as much to destroy the game they love as anyone else.

KChiefs1 · 03-09-2022, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life. Probably as informed a fan as you’ll find.

If it wasn’t for a some long term fantasy leagues I’ve been in for 25, 15 and 13 yrs respectively, I would barely even watch it anymore.

It’s just a bad product. The game is boring.

And that sucks because the talent level is absolutely ridiculous. There are so many simple fixes that could get the game back to being an action packed, exciting sport.

But inertia is crippling it.

Just give me the goddamn wheel and I’ll have it fixed by June.

That’s the problem…no one is at the wheel & it’s heading for a cliff about ready to do a Thelma & Louise.

MLB/MLBPA are killing the game.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

12-02-2021, 07:06 AM
Deberg_1990 In Search of a Life Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: San Antonio Tx. Casino cash: $24454	The MLB lockout thread Discussssss To our Fans: I first want to thank you for your continued support of the great game of baseball. This past season, we were reminded of how the national pastime can bring us together and restore our hope despite the difficult challenges of a global pandemic. As we began to emerge from one of the darkest periods in our history, our ballparks were filled with fans; the games were filled with excitement; and millions of families felt the joy of watching baseball together. That is why I am so disappointed about the situation in which our game finds itself today. Despite the league’s best efforts to make a deal with the Players Association, we were unable to extend our 26 year-long history of labor peace and come to an agreement with the MLBPA before the current CBA expired. Therefore, we have been forced to commence a lockout of Major League players, effective at 12:01am ET on December 2. I want to explain to you how we got here and why we have to take this action today. Simply put, we believe that an offseason lockout is the best mechanism to protect the 2022 season. We hope that the lockout will jumpstart the negotiations and get us to an agreement that will allow the season to start on time. This defensive lockout was necessary because the Players Association’s vision for Major League Baseball would threaten the ability of most teams to be competitive. It’s simply not a viable option. From the beginning, the MLBPA has been unwilling to move from their starting position, compromise, or collaborate on solutions. When we began negotiations over a new agreement, the Players Association already had a contract that they wouldn’t trade for any other in sports. Baseball’s players have no salary cap and are not subjected to a maximum length or dollar amount on contracts. In fact, only MLB has guaranteed contracts that run 10 or more years, and in excess of $300 million. We have not proposed anything that would change these fundamentals. While we have heard repeatedly that free agency is “broken” – in the month of November $1.7 billion was committed to free agents, smashing the prior record by nearly 4x. By the end of the offseason, Clubs will have committed more money to players than in any offseason in MLB history. We worked hard to find compromise while making the system even better for players, by addressing concerns raised by the Players Association. We offered to establish a minimum payroll for all clubs to meet for the first time in baseball history; to allow the majority of players to reach free agency earlier through an age-based system that would eliminate any claims of service time manipulation; and to increase compensation for all young players, including increases in the minimum salary. When negotiations lacked momentum, we tried to create some by offering to accept the universal Designated Hitter, to create a new draft system using a lottery similar to other leagues, and to increase the Competitive Balance Tax threshold that affects only a small number of teams. We have had challenges before with respect to making labor agreements and have overcome those challenges every single time during my tenure. Regrettably, it appears the Players Association came to the bargaining table with a strategy of confrontation over compromise. They never wavered from collectively the most extreme set of proposals in their history, including significant cuts to the revenue-sharing system, a weakening of the competitive balance tax, and shortening the period of time that players play for their teams. All of these changes would make our game less competitive, not more. To be clear: this hard but important step does not necessarily mean games will be cancelled. In fact, we are taking this step now because it accelerates the urgency for an agreement with as much runway as possible to avoid doing damage to the 2022 season. Delaying this process further would only put Spring Training, Opening Day, and the rest of the season further at risk – and we cannot allow an expired agreement to again cause an in-season strike and a missed World Series, like we experienced in 1994. We all owe you, our fans, better than that. Today is a difficult day for baseball, but as I have said all year, there is a path to a fair agreement, and we will find it. I do not doubt the League and the Players share a fundamental appreciation for this game and a commitment to its fans. I remain optimistic that both sides will seize the opportunity to work together to grow, protect, and strengthen the game we love. MLB is ready to work around the clock to meet that goal. I urge the Players Association to join us at the table. Manfred Read a letter from the Commissioner: https://t.co/P4gRGSlfsu pic.twitter.com/zI40uGLTni — MLB (@MLB) December 2, 2021 Statement from the Major League Baseball Players Association: pic.twitter.com/34uIGf762W — MLBPA Communications (@MLBPA_News) December 2, 2021
Posts: 68,747

03-09-2022, 07:59 PM	#631
Ocotillo Veteran Join Date: Sep 2019 Location: Red state Casino cash: $0	I was in FL. We never offered the Int’l Draft. We did discuss it, but MLB told us they were NOT going to offer anything for it. At that point, we informed all players & agreed to no draft. This is MLB muddying the waters & deflecting blame. Fans, pls hang in there with us. — Max Scherzer (@Max_Scherzer) March 10, 2022 MLB and PA tonight continuing to discuss int’l draft/qualifying offer issue, per league official. MLB wants it resolved before negotiating rest of deal. League received union counter after 6pE deadline. Parties will determine number of games in season if agreement is reached. — Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) March 10, 2022 It makes no sense for the season to be short-circuited by a dispute over the international draft. I get that players thought the concept came up late but it makes no sense players were so influenced to protect the awful current system by David Ortiz and others for no good reason. — Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 10, 2022 Sources: Indeed, the sides will talk tonight about the international draft proposal iniated by Manfred Tuesday night and put forth by the union just after the 6 pm deadline. Hope exists! https://t.co/YMAzeodtqZ — Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 10, 2022
Posts: 3,143

03-09-2022, 08:05 PM	#633
KC_Connection Perpetual Mediocrity Join Date: Jan 2006 Casino cash: $1442783	Hope exists Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. Although, as mentioned, if the sticking point really is an international draft for either side, that makes no sense for anyone involved.
Posts: 58,116

03-09-2022, 08:09 PM	#635
BigRedChief Has a particular set of skills Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: On the water Casino cash: $-871038 VARSITY	This has all been about the richest players. I guess all the players think they are all going to get $100+ million contracts too. __________________ Mahomes is not a game manager. Release the Kraken.
Posts: 81,383	1 0

03-09-2022, 08:11 PM	#637
TribalElder Arrowhead Trail of Tears Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: KansasCity Casino cash: $-689559	Have a friend who is a long time baseball fanatic tell me today he is done with MLB mentioned something about DH coming to national league along with some other bullshit changes baseball can't get out of it's own way
Posts: 29,559	1 0

03-09-2022, 08:55 PM	#643
Jerm Mahomes > God Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Clinton, MO Casino cash: $4348996	Oh and analytics have killed what’s great about the game too….
Posts: 10,229	1 0

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