Chiefs Who thinks Cassel is the next Len Dawson? - Page 5

SenselessChiefsFan · 03-03-2009, 07:35 AM

I read in Gretz's column this morning that the Chiefs are trying to prevent all the fans from thinking that Cassel is the second coming of Len Dawson. He went on to say that it was impossible, because Chiefs fans already think that.

I am wondering who? Who really thinks that? I like the move because it gives us a good prospect for a second round pick. I like the move because I feel like Cassel is at the very least, a John Kitna type QB who can manage the game. That is a nice 'starting' point. It solidifies the position. They aren't under any pressure to draft a guy early to try to 'solve' a problem. Now, they can draft guys late at the QB position in hopes of developing them down the road.

I don't even look at Cassel as the absolute starter on opening day. Yes, I think it is likely that happens. However, if Thigpen takes a big step forward, and Cassel doesn't look great, then Thigpen 'could' be the guy.

In other words, I don't think that Cassel is the next Len Dawson. I 'hope' Cassel is the next Len Dawson. I think Cassel is still ascending in his career.

Heck, I hope that Cassel is the next Trent Green. Seriously, if Cassel can be as effective in this system as Green was in Saunder's system... then the Chiefs made a great move. Especially considering that Cassel would be able to play for a decade here, or nearly twice as long as Trent Green.

Anyways, I don't get the sense that the Chiefs fans think this guy is the next Len Dawson. Am I wrong? Do you think he is the next Len Dawson?

58kcfan89 · 03-03-2009, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beach tribe

I agree, but everybody is always the next somebody, because somebody is always going to compare somebody to somebody, and everybody to everybody, but you don't have to be that somebody, who compares somebody to everybody. Got It?

yeah I got it...

beach tribe · 03-03-2009, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 58kcfan89

yeah I got it...

Welcome nOOb. If you have an opinion, share it. No matter how hard we beat for it.

RippedmyFlesh · 03-03-2009, 12:45 PM

There will never be another lenny dawson it was a different era. It was nfl vs afl. The afl proved 3 yards and a cloud of dust isn't the only game in town. Thats why there will never be another lenny in terms of his epic hero status but there will be a super bowl winning qb for my beloved chiefs soon.

keg in kc · 03-03-2009, 12:47 PM

I think the 'system QB' thing is thrown around way too much. It's not a matter of 'system QB' versus 'franchise quarterback', it's a matter of 'good quarterback' versus 'bad quarterback'. Every quarterback is a system quarterback; every quarterback has a comfort zone, they all have a specific system that fits their attributes. Obvious physical requirements aside (if you can't make the throws you'll never be anything...) greatness comes mostly from intangibles like an ability to see the field and make the right reads quickly, and an ability to sense pressure and know when it's time to get the hell out of the pocket or throw the ball away. Regardless of what system a guy plays in.

If Cassel succeeds here, it'll be because he's good. And because they've put good players around him. And because the system elevates the play of all 11 guys. Because it takes all of that for a guy to become a franchise quarterback. It's like that with everybody, from Brees to Brady to Manning to Ryan to Rivers.

If he doesn't have those intangibles, than, well, no amount of system magic will turn a turd into a diamond.

The Buddha · 03-03-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EyePod

I think either him or Thigpen can be. Thigpen would have had a MUCH better season last year had we put out an actual defense.

He may not be Len Dawson, but that's not the real question.

The question is, could he win a SB if we had a defense as good as the 69 Chiefs?

Chiefnj2 · 03-03-2009, 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htismaqe

That might just be his FLOOR, too.

He's still developing. Like I've said before, it's really the best of both worlds.

He's semi-established and can run an NFL offense. But he's 26 and still learning.

Exactly. Based on one year he's shown he can get a good team 11 wins. He still has room to improve. He still has room to slide.

I don't think being a systems QB is a bad thing. IMHO, almost every QB is a systems QB. Montana was, Brady is and Cassel will likely be one also.

**DeezNutz** · 03-03-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I think the 'system QB' thing is thrown around way too much. It's not a matter of 'system QB' versus 'franchise quarterback', it's a matter of 'good quarterback' versus 'bad quarterback'. Every quarterback is a system quarterback; every quarterback has a comfort zone, they all have a specific system that fits their attributes. Obvious physical requirements aside (if you can't make the throws you'll never be anything...) greatness comes mostly from intangibles like an ability to see the field and make the right reads quickly, and an ability to sense pressure and know when it's time to get the hell out of the pocket or throw the ball away. Regardless of what system a guy plays in.

If Cassel succeeds here, it'll be because he's good. And because they've put good players around him. And because the system elevates the play of all 11 guys. Because it takes all of that for a guy to become a franchise quarterback. It's like that with everybody, from Brees to Brady to Manning to Ryan to Rivers.

If he doesn't have those intangibles, than, well, no amount of system magic will turn a turd into a diamond.

There's merit in what you're saying here. My interpretation, however, is that the franchise vs. system debate has become a euphemism for elite talent vs. above average/serviceable.

This is a more nuanced argument, but not wholly different, from the good/bad terms you use above.

RippedmyFlesh · 03-03-2009, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Buddha

He may not be Len Dawson, but that's not the real question.

The question is, could he win a SB if we had a defense as good as the 69 Chiefs?

Another way to look at it is " Is he a good enough qb to beat the best defense? at the time (which minnesota was when lenny played today could be the giants in the sb while matt is playing )
The 69 chief's defense was filled with HOF's but an average qb doesn't score enough points against minnesota to win it.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-03-2009, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

Dawson?

Heck, I'd be pleased as punch if he's the second coming of Trent Green.

Another system QB who can't do jackshit without a Hall of Fame line blocking for him?

No thanks.

RippedmyFlesh · 03-03-2009, 01:03 PM

He won't put up greens numbers but I don't think it's a stretch to think matt could turnout better than green.

The Buddha · 03-03-2009, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Another system QB who can't do jackshit without a Hall of Fame line blocking for him?

No thanks.

Ne never got the chance to do jack shit without a Hall of Fame line.

It looked bad for all few quarters it happened, but we'll still never know.

**DaneMcCloud** · 03-03-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Buddha

Ne never got the chance to do jack shit without a Hall of Fame line.

It looked bad for all few quarters it happened, but we'll still never know.

Uh, 2001?

That was more than a "few" quarters.

Tiger's Fan · 03-03-2009, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Glad to know we could have had Stafford instead of Brad Johnson with the Vikings.

Tiger's Fan · 03-03-2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan

And I got MY ****ing thread-start privileges yanked?!

Good God...

You did? WTF is this, Christmas?

The Buddha · 03-03-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud

Uh, 2001?

That was more than a "few" quarters.

First year doesn't count... :-)

03-03-2009, 07:35 AM
SenselessChiefsFan MVP Join Date: Nov 2008 Casino cash: $10005450	Who thinks Cassel is the next Len Dawson? I read in Gretz's column this morning that the Chiefs are trying to prevent all the fans from thinking that Cassel is the second coming of Len Dawson. He went on to say that it was impossible, because Chiefs fans already think that. I am wondering who? Who really thinks that? I like the move because it gives us a good prospect for a second round pick. I like the move because I feel like Cassel is at the very least, a John Kitna type QB who can manage the game. That is a nice 'starting' point. It solidifies the position. They aren't under any pressure to draft a guy early to try to 'solve' a problem. Now, they can draft guys late at the QB position in hopes of developing them down the road. I don't even look at Cassel as the absolute starter on opening day. Yes, I think it is likely that happens. However, if Thigpen takes a big step forward, and Cassel doesn't look great, then Thigpen 'could' be the guy. In other words, I don't think that Cassel is the next Len Dawson. I 'hope' Cassel is the next Len Dawson. I think Cassel is still ascending in his career. Heck, I hope that Cassel is the next Trent Green. Seriously, if Cassel can be as effective in this system as Green was in Saunder's system... then the Chiefs made a great move. Especially considering that Cassel would be able to play for a decade here, or nearly twice as long as Trent Green. Anyways, I don't get the sense that the Chiefs fans think this guy is the next Len Dawson. Am I wrong? Do you think he is the next Len Dawson?
Posts: 5,540

03-03-2009, 12:45 PM	#63
RippedmyFlesh Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Casino cash: $10005817	There will never be another lenny dawson it was a different era. It was nfl vs afl. The afl proved 3 yards and a cloud of dust isn't the only game in town. Thats why there will never be another lenny in terms of his epic hero status but there will be a super bowl winning qb for my beloved chiefs soon.
Posts: 4,848

03-03-2009, 12:47 PM	#64
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	I think the 'system QB' thing is thrown around way too much. It's not a matter of 'system QB' versus 'franchise quarterback', it's a matter of 'good quarterback' versus 'bad quarterback'. Every quarterback is a system quarterback; every quarterback has a comfort zone, they all have a specific system that fits their attributes. Obvious physical requirements aside (if you can't make the throws you'll never be anything...) greatness comes mostly from intangibles like an ability to see the field and make the right reads quickly, and an ability to sense pressure and know when it's time to get the hell out of the pocket or throw the ball away. Regardless of what system a guy plays in. If Cassel succeeds here, it'll be because he's good. And because they've put good players around him. And because the system elevates the play of all 11 guys. Because it takes all of that for a guy to become a franchise quarterback. It's like that with everybody, from Brees to Brady to Manning to Ryan to Rivers. If he doesn't have those intangibles, than, well, no amount of system magic will turn a turd into a diamond.
Posts: 58,682

03-03-2009, 01:03 PM	#70
RippedmyFlesh Veteran Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: New York Casino cash: $10005817	He won't put up greens numbers but I don't think it's a stretch to think matt could turnout better than green.
Posts: 4,848

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