St. Louis Cardinals front office under FBI investigation for hacking

[Hootie]

I will agree, though, because I remember when they posted the Astros hack on deadspin everyone was like, "lol what a moron."

So, competitive advantage or no, it does seem like a move made out of spite. So I'll let DJ have that one.

As for Amnorix steering the thread towards NE's cheating ... once your owner accepts penalties levied down for cheating, arguing that your team didn't actually cheat is about the most ridiculous thing you could do, well, unless you're a total idiot homer.

[Hootie]

so the NFL really had a lot to gain by suspending the face of the league and docking the Patriots more picks and money for a cheating scandal that never existed

yeah man

totally

that is way more likely than ... THE PATRIOTS CHEATED. AGAIN.

way, way more likely

God you're dumb.

[mr. tegu]

Whoever leaked the initial hacking information a while back could have been upset that they were being forced to do it. It just as easily could have been orders from the higher ups just as it could have been a bit lower person going rogue.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by mr. tegu

Whoever leaked the initial hacking information a while back could have been upset that they were being forced to do it. It just as easily could have been orders from the higher ups just as it could have been a bit lower person going rogue.

If that were the case, they'd have leaked that the Cardinals ordered it. If they were that upset, they'd have burned the house down. It's possible, sure, but "just as easily"...nah.

But here's the thing - the FBI has the house that the system was accessed from and they know the former Cardinals employee(s) that resided there at the time. They have the names and the names will come out.

There's not gonna be a hell of a lot that doesn't get found out here. If Mozeliak sanctioned it, heads will definitely roll and that sucks a great deal because Mozeliak was kicking some substantial ass well before Luhnow even left. Now I've always been of the mind that our best talent evaluater went out the door with Luhnow but Mozeliak is a damn shrewd GM in his own right. He's not as good at finding the hitters that Luhnow was, but he's developed a damn good system for pitching and has largely been aces in fishing/cutting bait on veteran players.

We have, at worst, a top 10 MLB GM in St. Louis and almost certainly a top 5 front office overall in terms of a common culture and organizational stability. If this petty horseshit from a schism that occurred a decade ago implodes that, it's going to be damn disappointing.

But if Moe sanctioned it, there's no alternative. In the end, I guess it would be karmic justice. The Cards do seem to have some Devilmagic that leads to their success. I have no idea how a squad with their 1 and 2 starters, 3 and 4 hitters and setup man (now closer as well) all injured has the best record in baseball by 4 games, especially with the worst manager at the helm I've ever seen. It makes no sense. But it would figure that something like this is what takes them down.

[Hootie]

I'm not going to pretend to know much about Mike Matheny and his managing. I assume it would drive me about as crazy as Ned Yost and Ned Yost's bullpen management.

I will, however, point out that a manager, in the regular season, is basically +-2 wins for his team, tops.

The Cardinals were the same fan base that hated Tony LaRussa.

[Swanman]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm not going to pretend to know much about Mike Matheny and his managing. I assume it would drive me about as crazy as Ned Yost and Ned Yost's bullpen management.

I will, however, point out that a manager, in the regular season, is basically +-2 wins for his team, tops.

The Cardinals were the same fan base that hated Tony LaRussa.

In the regular season that may be true but once you get into the playoffs, the manager can have a much greater effect so giving or taking 1 game in a series due to managing can have a gigantic impact. Plus, decisions made by a manager can have lasting effects that go into the playoffs. For example, Matheny has always been a guy to grind his starting pitchers into dust during the regular season so way too many of them have tired arms or get hurt before the postseason. All in all, he is an absolutely god awful manager that has been gifted with a consistently great roster roster and a great front office.

[Hootie]

Originally Posted by Swanman

All in all, he is an absolutely god awful manager that has been gifted with a consistently great roster roster and a great front office.

this is a contradiction

a great front office doesn't hire a god awful manager -- unless, of course, your great front office realizes managing is no longer about X's and O's as much as it is about managing the clubhouse

so you can't have it both ways

why would a great front office hire a 'god awful manager'?

[duncan_idaho]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

this is a contradiction

a great front office doesn't hire a god awful manager -- unless, of course, your great front office realizes managing is no longer about X's and O's as much as it is about managing the clubhouse

so you can't have it both ways

why would a great front office hire a 'god awful manager'?

To maintain "the Cardinal way" rabble, rabble, rabble.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

this is a contradiction

a great front office doesn't hire a god awful manager -- unless, of course, your great front office realizes managing is no longer about X's and O's as much as it is about managing the clubhouse

so you can't have it both ways

why would a great front office hire a 'god awful manager'?

Because he's a fan favorite. And an argument could be made that there was no obvious reason that he'd be a god-awful manager at the time he was hired. Then again, there was no reason that he'd be a good one either - he had precisely zero games of managing experience above the little league level.

But because he inherited a WS winner that was loaded to the gills with cost-controlled arms, not to mention an entire top of the order at below market value, he's won ballgames. He got lucky that he took over a team that has a seemingly unending supply of major league quality hurlers right at the time that offense plummeted and that style of game became en vogue again.

As a consequence, he's untouchable. It's not because of his merits but rather a happy coincidence of roster construction and timing that he fell ass-backwards into.

The Cardinals would have won another WS and another pennant had LaRussa still been running the team over the last 3 seasons, IMO. I don't know what this means, really, but it's interesting to note that Matheny's teams have led post-season series only to lose 3 straight games to end their season in every year Matheny's managed the squad. As I see it, you're looking at a manager that simply doesn't have a Plan B. Once his opponent zigged, Matheny just sat there like a cow staring at a new gate and his team would implode.

[Lex Luthor]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

this is a contradiction

a great front office doesn't hire a god awful manager -- unless, of course, your great front office realizes managing is no longer about X's and O's as much as it is about managing the clubhouse

so you can't have it both ways

why would a great front office hire a 'god awful manager'?

Does Dayton Moore run a great front office?

He did hire Trey Hillman.

Of course, the answer could be that the Royals front office may be great now, but they weren't back when Moore was hiring Trey Hillman and acquiring players like Yuniesky Betancourt and Mike Jacobs.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

I'm not going to pretend to know much about Mike Matheny and his managing. I assume it would drive me about as crazy as Ned Yost and Ned Yost's bullpen management.

I will, however, point out that a manager, in the regular season, is basically +-2 wins for his team, tops.

The Cardinals were the same fan base that hated Tony LaRussa.

The problem with Matheny is the bizarre loyalty and the fact that he flogs his top 3 bullpen arms.

Look at every team he's run and he's lost either his setup man, primary lefty or closer for at least 1/2 the season. It's because he refuses to use anyone else. We have a thirteen man pitching staff right now and Kevin Siegrist has pitched 4 times in the last five games, the same Siegrist that lost 5 mph off his fastball and missed almost all of 2014 (after making 45 appearances in 100 games as a 23 yr old rook) and is only just now getting healthy again. He's been in 32 of the Cardinals 63 games so far. Care to guess how long he'll last? He broke down after appearing in 32 of 68 last season. I'm giving him another month. Walden appeared in 12 of the first 20 and has now missed 2 months.

Motte, Boggs, Rzepczynski, Mujica, Siegrist, Rosenthal, Walden - 1 pitcher over 3 years of managing this club has made it through multiple seasons unscathed and it's probably because he's never quite been one of Matheny's favorite 3: Seth Maness. Otherwise you can count on either his closer, setup man or #1 lefty missing months of the season every single year.

And again, the man feels compelled to utilize a 13 man pitching staff so he can play with a short bench (that is presently 2 catchers, Pete Kozma - worst player in baseball, and Peter Bourjos) and still go more than a week without even using a hot reliever like Villanueva.

And lets not even discuss the fact that for the 2nd consecutive season our cleanup hitter's been removed from the lineup and the team has actually improved because Matheny wouldn't bench a struggling Craig or Adams. Instead he'd just keep sending them out there to kill rallies. It took a trade and an injury to get two negative WAR hitters out of the cleanup spot.

Ultimately I think tactics sway anywhere from 3-5 games/season personally. Not a huge number, but not insignificant. But they matter more in the playoffs and they matter if they're getting your guys injured due to overuse.

[TLO]

Tisk tisk.

[OnTheWarpath15]

Favorite tweet so far:

The Cardinals hacked into the Phillies network first, but only found a game of Solitaire.

-DJ Short

[Hootie]

Uh no.

The Pats had to hear about Spygate for approximately 2 years before everyone forgot and stopped caring. It was literally dead until this latest cheating scandal.

This will be a big deal for about 6 months after the conclusion and then everyone will stop caring.

The public has the attention span that can only be measured in nano seconds.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Hootie 2.0

Uh no.

The Pats had to hear about Spygate for approximately 2 years before everyone forgot and stopped caring. It was literally dead until this latest cheating scandal.

This will be a big deal for about 6 months after the conclusion and then everyone will stop caring.

The public has the attention span that can only be measured in nano seconds.

Right up until they perform again.

The public forgot about Spygate...until the Pats were in another Super Bowl. Then they had to go through the wringer again. It'll be the same way with the Cards. The public will excoriate them every time they make the post-season. There's pretty much a cottage industry of trolling 'the BFIB' at this point - this will only get it spun up a little more.

Like I said - I don't really care about public reaction. I'd just really prefer see a good front office not get broken up. Baseball is the most rewarding sport there is when you have a good team, IMO. You get nightly content and if it's a bad outcome then you get a chance to wash it out the next night. Even when the Chiefs are good, it's one day a week with Monday as an afterglow and Friday as a gear up. Hockey and basketball are just so beholden to their playoffs that I don't give a shit during the regular season at all.

I'm not terribly interested in 90 loss seasons if we can avoid them.