Scout.com's Mock Draft - 04-03-2009

[The Franchise]

Complete with a trade.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/853317.html

KC receives: #12 and #18

Denver receives: #3

Sanchez goes #1 to the Lions
Monroe goes #2 to the Rams
Stafford goes #3 to the Broncos
Jason Smith goes #4 to the Rams
Jesus Christ goes #5 to the Broncos



The Chiefs get:

#12 - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
#18 - Andre Smith, OT, Alabama

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

#1) The only LTs who get help are LTs who can't handle the guy in front of them. I don't recall a prime Walter Jones, Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, Jonathon Ogden, Anthony Munoz, or Erik Williams needing help. (If an LT goes #1, he better be like those guys).

#2) I'd say 4 more, so that he proves he's as good as the currently unemployed 5 time Pro Bowler Roy Williams, since Pro Bowls are obvious measures of merit.

#3) I guess I missed the meeting where appealing to authority is now not a logical fallacy and that we shouldn't have opinions about decisions that GM's make. Bill Parcells also thought that Marcus Spears and Bobby Carpenter were worth 1st rounders and he traded down to pass on Stephen Jackson so that he could have Julius Jones, so he's obviously a genious, given that he has 15, 10, 5, 3, 2, 1 0 playoff wins without Bill Belichick.

#1 unqualified statement with no factual data behind it. Give me some facts to back that up.

#2 ProBowls are a pretty good judge of a players performance THAT year... things can change. So if he gets 5 PBs, you MAY admit it then?

#3 No I didn't appeal to authority I just pointed out that you act as if you know more, which is fine... but why then, don't I know just as much?
Parker and I disagree on this topic but guess what... he isn't a smug condescending arse about it. So far my track record on predictions is kicking yours to hell... Basically, it isn't that by disagreeing with Parcells you are wrong... it is just funny that you act that people who disagree with YOU have no clue what they are saying...


AND FINALLY... you have yet to produce a post of mine from last years draft that didn't prove true. Still waiting on that (my memory may have failed me here, but I think I have covered all that I said)

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

#1 unqualified statement with no factual data behind it. Give me some facts to back that up.

#2 ProBowls are a pretty good judge of a players performance THAT year... things can change. So if he gets 5 PBs, you MAY admit it then?

#3 No I didn't appeal to authority I just pointed out that you act as if you know more, which is fine... but why then, don't I know just as much?
Parker and I disagree on this topic but guess what... he isn't a smug condescending arse about it. So far my track record on predictions is kicking yours to hell... Basically, it isn't that by disagreeing with Parcells you are wrong... it is just funny that you act that people who disagree with YOU have no clue what they are saying...


AND FINALLY... you have yet to produce a post of mine from last years draft that didn't prove true. Still waiting on that (my memory may have failed me here, but I think I have covered all that I said)

#1) Hog shit. This has been discussed over and over again. Long had help on numerous occasions last year. One example was the Rams-Dolphins game, in which the Dolphins had to stay in max protect almost the entire game and give him help on the left side because Chris Long was whipping him like a government mule. Another were initial reports from training camp, where sources reported that he was having a great deal of trouble with speed rushers.

#2) Any Chiefs fan should know that Pro Bowls are far more about name recognition than skill. Look at Brian Waters the last 3 years without Roaf. He's a mediocre guard, and yet he's made several trips to Hawaii. Roy Williams playing for the Cowboys is why he made the Pro Bowl. If Roy Williams played for the Bucs, no one would know him. He's the ****ing Jason Sehorn of safeties.

#3) Saying that you would make a different decision does not equate to saying that you automatically know more about every situation and decision. I know that helps with your slippery slope fallacy, but it doesn't square with reality.

[Ebolapox]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

#1 unqualified statement with no factual data behind it. Give me some facts to back that up.

#2 ProBowls are a pretty good judge of a players performance THAT year... things can change. So if he gets 5 PBs, you MAY admit it then?

#3 No I didn't appeal to authority I just pointed out that you act as if you know more, which is fine... but why then, don't I know just as much?
Parker and I disagree on this topic but guess what... he isn't a smug condescending arse about it. So far my track record on predictions is kicking yours to hell... Basically, it isn't that by disagreeing with Parcells you are wrong... it is just funny that you act that people who disagree with YOU have no clue what they are saying...


AND FINALLY... you have yet to produce a post of mine from last years draft that didn't prove true. Still waiting on that (my memory may have failed me here, but I think I have covered all that I said)

1) almost impossible to get data on offensive linemen though. do you seriously ever remember the cornerstone LTs getting consistent help (aside from the occaisonal chip against the pro bowl passrushers)?

2) eh, it really depends. the pro bowl is also pretty much a popularity contest. do you really think there weren't more qualified guards than brian waters? do you think roy williams (safety) would have made those pro bowls if he wasn't a cowboy? do you think it's any wonder the best teams in the league have more secondary guys who don't put up great stats going to the pro bowl? more exposure, the teams tend to be more popular, etc. there are a LOT of guys who get in the year after a great year, even if their current work wasn't great. hell, a lot of cornerbacks make the pro-bowl despite unimpressive stats (when qbs don't throw their way a lot). reputation will get you a long way in the nfl sometimes.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

This is who you wanted us to draft with a 1st rounder in 2006:

And this is who I would draft ...

Jonathan Scott
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.c...t_jonathan.htm

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthrea...30#post2780830

In the 2007 draft, you wanted us to trade up for Amobi Okoye:

I would LOVE to get him for two simple reasons... he is SMART and he has a WORK ETHIC...

I would be perfectly happy seeing us trade up for him. I think the ONE glaring weakness for next year is DT.. the rest of the D is set for at least one more year.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155675

I would also like to add that I have been wrong and will be wrong in the future. I'm only pointing this out because of your statement that you only talk about things that you know about and that you know your shit.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Like saying that Texas had more NFL talent than USC? And claiming that Rod Wright (7th rounder) and Jonathan Scott (5th rounder) were 1st round talents?

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthrea...ie#post2944871

Jesus dude, you are reaching... that is from just after the 2005 season... can you go any further back?

And again, that was an out of context post, it wasn't a serious draft discusion .. it was another bashing thread where I was expressing my hate for a USC team that WAS just beaten by Texas.

I made that comment in JANUARY before the combine, simply based on what I had seen that season... and I will admit being wrong there..

AND in the end I was wrong by reaching with the last two from both teams... it was 2 1st rounders not 4 from each team.

ok, besides another out of context not serious DRAFT analysis post from 3 YEARS ago... got something for me?

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

This is who you wanted us to draft with a 1st rounder in 2006:

And this is who I would draft ...

Jonathan Scott
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.c...t_jonathan.htm

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthrea...30#post2780830

In the 2007 draft, you wanted us to trade up for Amobi Okoye:

I would LOVE to get him for two simple reasons... he is SMART and he has a WORK ETHIC...

I would be perfectly happy seeing us trade up for him. I think the ONE glaring weakness for next year is DT.. the rest of the D is set for at least one more year.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155675

I would also like to add that I have been wrong and will be wrong in the future. I'm only pointing this out because of your statement that you only talk about things that you know about and that you know your shit.

NO, again you are reaching back to pre-combine threads.. if you find me one statement post combine endorsing them.. I will give your argument validity... but so far these were comments that go back before the serious draft talk starts

I will admit I was wrong by saying I only talk about what I know.. that was more just shit talking... BUT I will say that when it gets closer to the draft and most of the data is in... I rarely talk about any players that I am not damn confident in. and so far that has panned out pretty well.

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

This is who you wanted us to draft with a 1st rounder in 2006:

And this is who I would draft ...

Jonathan Scott
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.c...t_jonathan.htm

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthrea...30#post2780830

In the 2007 draft, you wanted us to trade up for Amobi Okoye:

I would LOVE to get him for two simple reasons... he is SMART and he has a WORK ETHIC...

I would be perfectly happy seeing us trade up for him. I think the ONE glaring weakness for next year is DT.. the rest of the D is set for at least one more year.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155675

I would also like to add that I have been wrong and will be wrong in the future. I'm only pointing this out because of your statement that you only talk about things that you know about and that you know your shit.

Funny, because Levi Brown was your "dream scenario pick" followed by Ginn, Okoye, Tank Tyler, and Pittcock.

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Realistically: Levi Brown.

I'd be fine with Ginn, Okoye, Tyler, maybe Pittcock.

I'm also going to pay close attention to Doug Free of NIU in round 2. It would be nice to draft bookend tackles who could be here for a f'ing decade.

[AustinChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

#1) Hog shit. This has been discussed over and over again. Long had help on numerous occasions last year. One example was the Rams-Dolphins game, in which the Dolphins had to stay in max protect almost the entire game and give him help on the left side because Chris Long was whipping him like a government mule. Another were initial reports from training camp, where sources reported that he was having a great deal of trouble with speed rushers.

#2) Any Chiefs fan should know that Pro Bowls are far more about name recognition than skill. Look at Brian Waters the last 3 years without Roaf. He's a mediocre guard, and yet he's made several trips to Hawaii. Roy Williams playing for the Cowboys is why he made the Pro Bowl. If Roy Williams played for the Bucs, no one would know him. He's the ****ing Jason Sehorn of safeties.

#3) Saying that you would make a different decision does not equate to saying that you automatically know more about every situation and decision. I know that helps with your slippery slope fallacy, but it doesn't square with reality.

#1 Statement without facts = opinion.. I am fine with you having your opinions but you treat them as fact and that doesn't work unless you produce data. Not just your assertions.

#2 I actually agree that name recognition plays FAR to big of a role. BUT you don't get to the probowl if you are an incompent LT that can only play RT (maybe) in the NFL... that was what I was told...

#3 I seriously botched the wording on most of this argument.. it is more about your attitude towards people that don't agree... as if they have NO knowledge base worth acknowledging. My bad, I made that about as clear as mud.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by doomy3

Funny, because Levi Brown was your "dream scenario pick" followed by Ginn, Okoye, Tank Tyler, and Pittcock.

Yeah, and we picked at 20 that year, and he went 5. All things being equal, we could have done a hell of a lot worse than a RT, Ted Ginn, or Okoye at 20. Trading up for them? Not so much.

Furthermore, I'd also like to add that I was far less educated about the draft back then. I'd say the 2006 version of me would probably be far more in line with the Curry praisers and would be high 1st round QB averse. I have no problem admitting the error of my ways. Wasn't my first, won't be my last.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

NO, again you are reaching back to pre-combine threads.. if you find me one statement post combine endorsing them.. I will give your argument validity... but so far these were comments that go back before the serious draft talk start

I will admit I was wrong by saying I only talk about what I know.. that was more just shit talking... BUT I will say that when it gets closer to the draft and most of the data is in... I rarely talk about any players that I am not damn confident in. and so far that has panned out pretty well.

Pittsburgh gets the biggest STEAL of this draft. Mendenhall is amazing. I think he will end up the best RB of this entire draft. Mark it down.

[Mecca]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Yeah, and we picked at 20 that year, and he went 5. All things being equal, we could have done a hell of a lot worse than a RT, Ted Ginn, or Okoye at 20. Trading up for them? Not so much.

Pretty much any of them would be better than what we ended up with....

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Pretty much any of them would be better than what we ended up with....

Bowe?

[doomy3]

Originally Posted by Mecca

Pretty much any of them would be better than what we ended up with....

All those guys would be better than Bowe? OK, Mecca.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by AustinChief

#1 Statement without facts = opinion.. I am fine with you having your opinions but you treat them as fact and that doesn't work unless you produce data. Not just your assertions.

I provided data for you. If you want more, I suggest you go to ten yard torrents and download the Rams-Dolphins game.

Or, you could go here:

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/02/e...vs-chris-long/

I'm scoring the Long vs. Long match-up like a fight: Each Dolphins offensive drive is a round, and I'll score using the 10-point must system. I've done this before with Dwight Freeney taking on Jonathan Ogden in 2004 and again in 2005.

Drive 1
With Chris Long lined up to the outside of Jake Long and ready for a speed rush, Jake was called for a false start before the Dolphins' first offensive play. When the Dolphins finally got to run a play, Chris tried to rush to the outside of Jake and never got close to making the tackle as Jake pushed him aside. The Dolphins didn't think Chris was fast enough to make tackles from the backside; when a Ronnie Brown run went around the right end, Jake didn't even bother blocking Chris and Chris was not, in fact, fast enough to track Brown down.

On Chad Pennington's second pass of the game, Chris absolutely dominated Jake. Chris started with an outside speed rush, but when Jake got into good position to stop him, Chris simply grabbed Jake by the shoulder pads, threw him to the ground, and then grabbed Pennington and slammed him to the ground. Pennington (barely) got the pass off, but it was incomplete, and Chris made him pay the price for it. The next time Pennington passed, Jake got help blocking Chris from guard Andy Alleman.

Overall, from the false start to the hit on Pennington, Chris Long absolutely dominated this round.

Score: Chris, 10-7.

Drive 2
Dolphins running back Lousaka Polite got the handoff on the first play of the drive, and Jake opened up a big hole by pushing Chris to the outside. When Pennington dropped back to pass, Jake got a little bit of help on a chip block from tight end Anthony Fasano, but even without Fasano's help, Jake appeared to have Chris under control. On Pennington's next pass Chris tried to spin to the inside and Jake held him in check, and then Chris tried another outside move on the pass after that, and Jake stoned him again.

Chris made a nice play on a handoff to Ronnie Brown, getting off Jake's initial block and taking Brown down after a gain of seven yards. (That play came back because Dolphins offensive lineman Vernon Carey was called for facemasking.) After that, Chris spent a few plays on the sideline. But for the most part, when they went one-on-one, Jake got the better of the battle.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 3
A three-play drive, with Chris staying on the sideline. Nothing to see here.

Score: 10-10 draw.

Drive 4
The first play was a strange one: Chris came with an outside rush and beat, Jake, forcing Pennington to step up in the pocket. When Pennington did step up in the pocket, he saw that there was nothing but green turf in front of him, so he scampered 16 yards before stepping out of bounds. It was a heads-up play for Pennington and a good play for the Dolphins, but what we're interested in here is the individual battle, and Chris clearly won that play.

On a handoff to Ricky Williams later in the drive, Jake drove Chris back a few yards but then just stopped blocking before the play was over. Both Jake and Chris looked to me like they gave up on a few plays before the whistle blew, which is the type of thing you can get away with when you're in college and you're a lot better than everyone else, but that you can't get away with if you want to be a great NFL player.

After a holding penalty, the Dolphins faced first-and-20 with 49 seconds left before halftime. Chris rushed to the outside and Jake got in his way at first, doing a pretty good job of maintaining the proper position. But as Pennington tried to buy time in the pocket, Chris finally got Jake off balance, knocked him down, and hit Pennington just as Pennington delivered his pass, a seven-yard completion to Fasano. Jake held his pass block for, by my stopwatch, 4.0 seconds -- long enough that on most plays, Chris wouldn't have gotten to Pennington. But the bottom line is that Pennington took a shot to the ribs. That means Jake didn't hold his block long enough.

Score: Chris, 10-8.

Drive 5
On the first play of the second half, Jake was matched up with Chris on a Pennington pass, and both Williams and Alleman came over to help him. Is this a sign that the Dolphins made a halftime adjustment, thinking Jake couldn't handle Chris and they'd need to give him help?

Probably not, because on Pennington's next pass, it was Jake vs. Chris, one-on-one again. Chris got good pressure on Pennington, as did Rams defensive lineman James Hall, and they both hit Pennington as he passed, forcing an incompletion and a three-and-out.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Drive 6
Jake was one-on-one with Chris again on Pennington's next pass, and although he looked a little clumsy -- losing his balance and going to the ground -- he held up long enough that Pennington had time to throw a beautiful pass along the right sideline for a 37-yard completion to Davone Bess.

On the next two plays, runs by Ronnie Brown, Jake blocked Chris effectively, and when Pennington passed again, Jake held him in check without needing any help. It was a good series for Jake, and it culminated in a Dolphins field goal.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 7
The Dolphins ran just two plays on this drive, fumbling both times. On the first play, Pennington bobbled the snap, picked it up, tried to run to his left, and was tackled by Chris, who used quick footwork to get by Jake.

On the second play, Pennington pitched the ball to Brown, who passed it to tight end David Martin, who fumbled. Rams linebacker Quinton Culberson picked it up and tried to run, but Jake hustled downfield and tackled him. That was a great, heads-up play by Jake, although hustling downfield to make tackles after fumbles isn't really the first thing you look for in an offensive tackle. Overall, thanks to the tackle on Pennington, I have to give this
round to Chris.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Drive 8
Again, a three-play drive, with Chris staying on the sideline. Nothing to see here.

Score: 10-10 draw.

Drive 9
Not much action between the two here, either, but when they did go one-on-one, on a Pennington deep pass, Jake held Chris at bay, so we'll give it to Jake.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 10
The Dolphins' final drive of the game was a long one, on which Miami controlled the ball, held onto its lead and forced St. Louis to use all three timeouts. Jake showed off some good run blocking, but he and Alleman both flinched on a third down (perhaps anticipating a speed rush from Chris, who was lined up on Jake's outside shoulder), giving the Dolphins a costly false start penalty. That's enough to give the final round of this fight to Chris.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Final score: Chris Long beats Jake Long by score of 97-92.

No, Chris Long didn't record a sack, and yes, he got just one tackle. But he hit Pennington three times and generally looked like a much better pass rusher than Jake Long is a pass blocker. Jake was fine in run blocking, but he still has work to do as a pass blocker, and overall, Chris Long won this battle of highly drafted rookies.

[Mecca]

Oh wait I thought that was the Hali year nevermind.

Remind me not to post when I just sit down in front of the computer.