A Levelheaded Review Wk17

[DenverChief]

1. The missed XP & FG - didn't get to see another view of the XP snap - looks like Tommy just flat out dropped the ball. Love the initial effort to just take it in for 2 but when he realized he wasn't gonna get there it got ugly. Maybe Tommy is the problem. Need to figure out the XP/FG thing real quick. That will kill us in the playoffs. The missed FG at half, dunno what to say other that Butker flat out shanked that kick. I watched closely as the ball was snapped. It was a clean catch and perfect placement (laces out) Butker for whatever reason hit it like a parent chasing a child around the house.

2. EZ Interception. The Broncos seem to have figured out how to get Pat to throw picks. 4 total in the last two meetings combined. Disappointed in this one but Pat takes risks and sometimes they don't work out. I did think it was interesting that Pat didn't throw to Pat's side all game. Much respect for the Surtain.

3. Toney PR fumble was just good special teams work. Can't really fault Toney for fumbling - it was a good strip. Chiefs have to know other teams are looking to strip the ball now. Knowing that our guys aren't holding the ball with two hands in traffic.

4. Defense played really well multiple batted balls, couple of Wilson sacks and bottled their O pretty effectively. 2nd Q big 3rd down play with about a minute left. They just found the soft spot in the D, this is a direct result of LB's in coverage. Need to find that Sorenson hybrid LB/DB. Someone with size to play the run and speed to play the pass. Defense really came up big today when it counted and they have improved dramatically over the last couple of games. The addition of Brandon Williams seems to correlate with the improved pass rush and run D.

5. Watson, just when you thought he was done for he comes up with a huge play in the final seconds of the first half. Great catch - absolutely amazed at what Mahomes can make happen with very little time on the clock.

6. The Broncos are a proud organization they know the score and they are going to give us 110% every game year after year. We have to be prepared for that. Especially with the dismissal of their HC. Denver last swept us multiple years in the division from 2012 thru 2014. We have been sweeping them every year since 2016, 14 games in a row, quite the feat. Especially considering a lot our rivalry has been to split the series. They are no slouches and were projected to give the Chiefs a run for their money this year. Their Defense is really good - their offense is okay.

7. Patrick is back to playing the long ball game when it's not there. Gotta take the open stuff underneath. He missed Pacheco wide open in the flat a couple of times. Need to see the all 22 but Juju and Kelce both disappeared through the 1st three quarters. Need to game plan to get them in the game earlier.

8. Sneed wanted that pick 6 pretty bad and got absolutely leveled by Jerry Jeudy. Gotta have your head on a swivel if you are gonna dance around after an interception. Glad to see he is okay after taking that hit.

9. Referees - Pass interference the PI on Sutton was super ticky tacky as was the Williams PI. The 4th and 7th play was incredibly confusing. Illegal hands to the face (which no replay - show me the penalty - I hate them ignoring that) before the interception - 5 yard penalty makes it 4th & 2. The sticks were set up for 1st and 10 but the down marker was 4th down. Didn't matter as Jeudy got a 9 yard pass but talk about discombobulated. WTF was going on with the zebras today.

10. Injuries Thuney and Skyy. Obviously the Thuney injury hurts, hopefully it is just minor and can make a complete recovery before the playoffs.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by oldman

The ease in scoring that 1st TD may have set the tone for some to ease up a bit. That leads to mistakes and mistakes lead to opponents points. You can rationalize all you want about Denver being up for this game due to a coaching change/embarrassing loss, but I see it as a disturbing trend where we take sad teams too lightly. Denver twice, Houston, Indy, and the Raiders games were fine examples.

Agreed. It's who the Chiefs are this season.

[Buehler445]

Originally Posted by el borracho

The new guys

Pacheco is my favorite addition this year. Love seeing him get some receptions. Would love to see him get some of the same passes McKinnon gets, especially near the goal line. Would also love to see Pacheco get some of the passes that made Kimble Anders' career. I think Pacheco has the speed, wiggle and hate to house something like that.

Toney is my second favorite addition this year. Can't wait to see what he can do after an offseason in the system.

Has Cook been more involved lately? Only casual observation, but it seems like he is either playing more or doing more than even a few games ago.

I've been pining for Pacheco to get passes in the flat for awhile, and yesterday he did get at least one that I can remember. It's probably a wash between him and McKinnon with McKinnon having the edge with some old man tricks, but Pacheco is the future McKinnon (as much as I love him) is not.

But it is certainly positive that he is getting looks.

Originally Posted by DenverChief

Yeah the first one was 3rd & 10 at our own 20. He hesitated and only got 4 yards. The second one was a 3rd & 10 at our own 25 and he hesitated and only got 2 yards. Either way if he doesn't hesitate maybe he gets the first maybe he doesn't. But if you are gonna hesitate and wait for the D to collapse into your running lane might as well just throw the ball out of bounds at that point instead of running for 2-4 yards and taking a hit.

AFAIC Mahomes has earned the rope to make those calls, but I agree with chucking it out of bounds. In all likelihood he's not that dude, probably. Those two will stand out on film and he'll lock that away in his archives, but he's probably always going to be the guy that thinks if I can just make this one guy miss I can smoke the other fool.

But yeah, chuck that bitch out of bounds, please?

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Man, I don't agree with your assessment at all.

most of the INT's are precisely because Mahomes ISN'T always taking what's there and forcing it downfield.

Trying to force the ball downfield when the defense is specifically built to beat that is just madness, Mahomes or no.

It's still football. Even when you have the best QB in the sport, it's still football.

Run the ball and take the short stuff and get them out of the light boxes and dropping 7 and the deep shots will be there.

It's still football.

There is no reason why you can’t build around efficiency but also have options that allow you to get aggressive. Toney shows time and time again that when he’s not out there we do not have a sideline threat. Who else is going up to get passes the way he does besides of course kelce? These are routine plays for other teams. Even if we could open it up how good are our options? Mvs continues to be horrible adjusting to the ball. Hell what’s the point of him being out there when he really hurts efficiency. Jujus solid enough but he’s not gonna match up against shutdown CBs or give you the speed you need there.

We are built decently well now for efficiency. Cool, build off that. But we see time and time and time again that our speed guys are horrendous adjusting to the ball, and our size guys aren’t fast enough to stretch the field.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

There is no reason why you can’t build around efficiency but also have options that allow you to get aggressive. Toney shows time and time again that when he’s not out there we do not have a sideline threat. Who else is going up to get passes the way he does besides of course kelce? These are routine plays for other teams. Even if we could open it up how good are our options? Mvs continues to be horrible adjusting to the ball. Hell what’s the point of him being out there when he really hurts efficiency. Jujus solid enough but he’s not gonna match up against shutdown CBs or give you the speed you need there.

We are built decently well now for efficiency. Cool, build off that. But we see time and time and time again that our speed guys are horrendous adjusting to the ball, and our size guys aren’t fast enough to stretch the field.

Man, I'm really not sure what you're arguing.

We have more a more explosive offense than last season by any statistical measure. Juju, who I wouldn't call 'explosive' is averaging 11.9 yards per catch, and Hill, who I would call explosive was at 11.1 last year.

We're the number one offense in football, despite a lot of fumbles and dumb interceptions-far more than previous seasons.

The only change we need to make is to clean things up.

Literally.

[philfree]

[QUOTE=oldman;16703001]The ease in scoring that 1st TD may have set the tone for some to ease up a bit. That leads to mistakes and mistakes lead to opponents points. You can rationalize all you want about Denver being up for this game due to a coaching change/embarrassing loss, but I see it as a disturbing trend where we take sad teams too lightly. Denver twice, Houston, Indy, and the Raiders games were fine examples.[OTE]

No that's not what happened. WE scored on the first drive and then botched the XP. After the donks kicked a FG we drove the ball down the field and then the refs blew an obvious PI in the end zone and on the next play Mahomes tried to squeeze one in and it got picked. Our D held and then Toney tried to do to much on the punt return and fumbled the ball away. That gave the donks some juice and they scored a TD and the game was on. The Chiefs didn't ease up they screwed up. Then they won the game so it's all good.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Man, I'm really not sure what you're arguing.

We have more a more explosive offense than last season by any statistical measure. Juju, who I wouldn't call 'explosive' is averaging 11.9 yards per catch, and Hill, who I would call explosive was at 11.1 last year.

We're the number one offense in football, despite a lot of fumbles and dumb interceptions-far more than previous seasons.

The only change we need to make is to clean things up.

Literally.

I’m tired of this narrative that we are so explosive on offense that we should be remotely content. Andy Reid is a magician making it really work with what we have. But we have clear limits. And they are limits on talent, not on sloppiness. Anyone not looking at stats on paper can see that our offense hasn’t been nearly as explosive as you continue to suggest. Two bad second halves against denver. Terrible game vs Seattle. Struggled against the rams. And despite what the numbers say, we had a really hard time moving the ball vs the chargers and titans. I get why we want to be more efficient but we have some glaring issues with the passing game.

And the narrative that we weren’t explosive last year is also overused and exaggerated. We were dominant the second half of last year including back to back 40+ point playoff wins. We had one bad second half against cincy.

You’re not gonna clean up Mvs. He just isn’t it. For crying out loud we run Watson on 75% of snaps simply for running the right routes. Thats a talent issue. Defenses can essentially wipe out two of our WRs without paying a lick of attention to them. Juju is solid but we all know he’s a possession guy. Again I applaud our move to efficiency and I know this is a rebuild year. I’m just shocked at how many are content with what our offense has become. I don’t care what the numbers say, as good as we’ve been, we are capable of way better and we can be with more talent.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I’m tired of this narrative that we are so explosive on offense that we should be remotely content. Andy Reid is a magician making it really work with what we have. But we have clear limits. And they are limits on talent, not on sloppiness. Anyone not looking at stats on paper can see that our offense hasn’t been nearly as explosive as you continue to suggest. Two bad second halves against denver. Terrible game vs Seattle. Struggled against the rams. And despite what the numbers say, we had a really hard time moving the ball vs the chargers and titans. I get why we want to be more efficient but we have some glaring issues with the passing game.

And the narrative that we weren’t explosive last year is also overused and exaggerated. We were dominant the second half of last year including back to back 40+ point playoff wins. We had one bad second half against cincy.

You’re not gonna clean up Mvs. He just isn’t it. For crying out loud we run Watson on 75% of snaps simply for running the right routes. Thats a talent issue. Defenses can essentially wipe out two of our WRs without paying a lick of attention to them. Juju is solid but we all know he’s a possession guy. Again I applaud our move to efficiency and I know this is a rebuild year. I’m just shocked at how many are content with what our offense has become. I don’t care what the numbers say, as good as we’ve been, we are capable of way better and we can be with more talent.

Amen! We have the QB. We can be so much more.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by Chris Meck

Man, I'm really not sure what you're arguing.

We have more a more explosive offense than last season by any statistical measure. Juju, who I wouldn't call 'explosive' is averaging 11.9 yards per catch, and Hill, who I would call explosive was at 11.1 last year.

We're the number one offense in football, despite a lot of fumbles and dumb interceptions-far more than previous seasons.

The only change we need to make is to clean things up.

Literally.

No we dont. The clean up part is a biproduct of what this offense has become. Buff and Cin are explosive. We dink and dunk and break the short ones big sometimes, which gets us many of the long completions stats.

[JPH83]

Originally Posted by TEX

No we dont. The clean up part is a biproduct of what this offense has become. Buff and Cin are explosive. We dink and dunk and break the short ones big sometimes, which gets us many of the long completions stats.

Yeah it's a odd offense really. It's elite, absolutely lethal a lot of the time, but explosive? Dunno. I'm happy to be proven wrong but it seems like we're ripping off fewer chunk plays than in previous years. That said I think that started last year when we did have an elite WR, so who knows, and obviously there's a reasonable argument of "who cares?"

I can kind of see it both ways. If we had a decent RT maybe some of the longer developing explosive plays have a better chance. But do we really expect this WR group to be delivering that? I do think the one obvious area of improvement for the offense is here though. Maybe we get that with a WR upgrade, maybe OT. As long as we build in at least one of those positions next year I'll be happy.

[Chris Meck]

Look, guys, you're arguing against a fantasty.

'content'?

No, realistic. We have 33 players under contract for 2023, and that includes literally not a single starting offensive tackle.

There will not be money to go buy a star #1 in free agency.

Nobody's saying we wouldn't like upgrades. Nobody's saying that.

All I'm saying is that we're going to have to draft and develop them.

Of course Cinci is more 'explosive'-they've got their high first round pick WR and elite QB on rookie deals.

We don't have that anymore. And you can't just go buy one.

The cap will not allow it.

So yeah, I agree, this is a tiresome argument, because the cap is real, and paying Mahomes is real, and the fact that we have to field a full team is real.

It's not ****ing happening. So move the **** on, already.

There's nothing wrong with the offense that better execution doesn't fix. There will be turnover in the offseason, as there will be every year now. It's life with an elite QB getting paid as such.

For the remainder of this season, KC will go as far as their execution level determines. The only thing that ever stops them is themselves, with fumbles, drops, INT's. Also, just in my opinion, sub-par OT play, but that's just me.

No, we don't have time to run WASP. So if that's what you want, then you need better OT's. Two of 'em. And you definitely can't have THAT and also pay market price for a speedy WR1.

Nobody's saying they don't want it. Some of us are saying it's not feasible.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by JPH83

Yeah it's a odd offense really. It's elite, absolutely lethal a lot of the time, but explosive? Dunno. I'm happy to be proven wrong but it seems like we're ripping off fewer chunk plays than in previous years. That said I think that started last year when we did have an elite WR, so who knows, and obviously there's a reasonable argument of "who cares?"

I can kind of see it both ways. If we had a decent RT maybe some of the longer developing explosive plays have a better chance. But do we really expect this WR group to be delivering that? I do think the one obvious area of improvement for the offense is here though. Maybe we get that with a WR upgrade, maybe OT. As long as we build in at least one of those positions next year I'll be happy.

I think and hope getting Toney out there and getting skyy better will help quite a bit. Those guys help a ton with the passing game by taking those quick hitches and wiggling for gains. And McKinnon helps a ton too obviously. But once we get that more consistently even if the defense loosens up an inch we should be taking it a mile. Which then makes it even easier to open up the short game. But we just don’t have the horses to do that. None of our guys right now scare other teams downfield. Denver did exactly that. The opportunities were there and we didn’t take advantage of them. Some of that is obviously on mahomes for flat out missing. But the only WR who scares anybody downfield right now is Toney and I’m not sure we can ever rely on him to have a huge snap share.

[Chris Meck]

Originally Posted by TEX

No we dont. The clean up part is a biproduct of what this offense has become. Buff and Cin are explosive. We dink and dunk and break the short ones big sometimes, which gets us many of the long completions stats.

So you're really arguing 'air yards'?

I personally don't think a shorter pass that a receiver breaks a long run counts any less than a pass that travels 40 yards in the air.

We don't have ****ing time to run WASP.

[el borracho]

I could be wrong but I *think* the Chiefs (and their top 5 offense) are among the best this year for plays of 20+ yards.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by TEX

No we dont. The clean up part is a biproduct of what this offense has become. Buff and Cin are explosive. We dink and dunk and break the short ones big sometimes, which gets us many of the long completions stats.

Mahomes is 5th in air yards

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Hammock Parties

Mahomes is 5th in air yards

https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm

But #23 per attempt and #19 in completed air yards per attempt. We are also #2 in YAC.