Who's your dark horse?

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by staylor26

But yet you strongly prefer WJ3 and Apple over Alexander. Strange contradiction.

What I was pointing out is TJ Green is extremely raw and I don't want a project at 28. I think he's a Dee Ford type prospect that will take time wheras Bell is already experienced and ready.

And no I don't think it's a contradiction at all. Bell is 5'11 with arms that are longer with a much stronger body (16 bench reps). Plus he's not having reports of attitude or football IQ questions.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by RunKC

What I was pointing out is TJ Green is extremely raw and I don't want a project at 28. I think he's a Dee Ford type prospect that will take time wheras Bell is already experienced and ready.

And no I don't think it's a contradiction at all. Bell is 5'11 with arms that are longer with a much stronger body (16 bench reps). Plus he's not having reports of attitude or football IQ questions.

One inch, if that, for both. Alexander has more polish than those guys (WJ3/Apple), which was another reason I called it a contradiction. Not to mention he plays much bigger than Bell does. Bell lacks the physicality to go from FS to press corner. Bells reports of being "soft" are more concerning to me.

Also, I'll say it again, it doesn't take much experience to run around and chase a guy in man coverage, so the experience isn't THAT much of a concern for me. I love the traits and the fact that he's a former WR that moved to safety and showed physicality in the run game.

I have to say though, this shit about Alexander is being completely overblown. Even the guys that reported it aren't as down on him as you guys are after it. He said he was the best corner in the draft and some teams obviously had a problem with it. BIG ****ing DEAL. Guy has absolutely no red flags character wise previous to that. Again, he doesn't need a great football IQ to play corner for us.

You know who did the exact same thing? Dee Ford. And Dorsey had no problem with it.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by staylor26

One inch, if that, for both. Alexander has more polish than those guys (WJ3/Apple), which was another reason I called it a contradiction. Not to mention he plays much bigger than Bell does. Bell lacks the physicality to go from FS to press corner. Bells reports of being "soft" are more concerning to me.

Also, I'll say it again, it doesn't take much experience to run around and chase a guy in man coverage, so the experience isn't THAT much of a concern for me. I love the traits and the fact that he's a former WR that moved to safety and showed physicality in the run game.

I have to say though, this shit about Alexander is being completely overblown. Even the guys that reported it aren't as down on him as you guys are after it. He said he was the best corner in the draft and smoke teams obviously had a problem with it. BIG ****ing DEAL. Guy has absolutely no red flags character wise previous to that. Again, he doesn't need a great football IQ to play corner for us.

You know who did the exact same thing? Dee Ford. And Dorsey had no problem with it.

And we are still waiting for Dee Ford to finally break out. I've said it many times man. I don't want Dee Ford's in the first Rd this anymore. First or second year of a rebuild? Sure. When the team's in win now mode? **** no.

That's why I like Vernon Butler and WJIII so much. They are ready now and have very few cons.
I'm not a big fan of Vonn Bell, and I think he's a 2nd rd talent. I could see him being taken as a "dark horse" but I agree he has some holes in his game. Same as Artie Burns. He's got good characteristics, but he's weak as hell (7 bench reps) and he's hot and cold. But Dorsey could take him bc he fits the measurables matrix.

Dorsey dominated the draft last year bc he took players with few cons from their play on the field, their measurables and attitude. He didn't draft that way before and look at the difference?

I want to draft a Marcus Peters/Mitch Morse this season, not an Eric Fisher or Dee Ford development prospect.

[O.city]

Who knows where it's coming from. Could be from teams, another corners agent, a team wanting him to drop to them etc.

**** me, let's just have the dam draft. This is crazy

[Chief Northman]

If Ragland falls as some suggest, I still don't think the Chiefs pick him. We have Ramik Wilson, DJ Alexander, Justin March and Josh Mauga vying for a spot beside DJ. Ragland would just be a luxury at that point albeit the talent level would be raised.

[kccrow]

Add this for Alexander under cons: benefited from raping receivers 15 yards down field frequently which will draw a plethora flags in the NFL.

[staylor26]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Add this for Alexander under cons: benefited from raping receivers 15 yards down field frequently which will draw a plethora flags in the NFL.

That's bullshit. Your entire assessment of Alexander is so strange. You also said he would fit best in a zone scheme.

Then again, you also said Hargreaves was overratted, so maybe you have a bias against guys on the smaller side. Or maybe you just suck at evaluating CB's.

At least RunKC's issues with Alexander are the normal complaints.

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by staylor26

That's bullshit. Your entire assessment of Alexander is so strange. You also said he would fit best in a zone scheme.

Then again, you also said Hargreaves was overratted, so maybe you have a bias against guys on the smaller side. Or maybe you just suck at evaluating CB's.

At least RunKC's issues with Alexander are the normal complaints.

Its not bullshit. He does it all the time. Watch his games. He's got to clean the contact up down field or he's ****ed in the NFL.

I'd take Kalan Reed before Alexander in this scheme and I have Reed rated as a 2nd rounder.

[RunKC]

Robert Nkemdiche is probably the biggest dark horse. Yes he seems off the rails, but everybody thought Peters was that guy last year. Kicked off the team, huge temper, couldn't work with others, etc. It scared me last year bc we heard the same thing about Baldwin in 2011 and it burned us.

There's no denying Nkemdiche is a top 10 talent. Dude is super fast off the line and everyone he played had to double him constantly.

I wonder if Dorsey has sent Ballard to Mississippi yet..

[Chief Northman]

Originally Posted by RunKC

Robert Nkemdiche is probably the biggest dark horse. Yes he seems off the rails, but everybody thought Peters was that guy last year. Kicked off the team, huge temper, couldn't work with others, etc. It scared me last year bc we heard the same thing about Baldwin in 2011 and it burned us.

There's no denying Nkemdiche is a top 10 talent. Dude is super fast off the line and everyone he played had to double him constantly.

I wonder if Dorsey has sent Ballard to Mississippi yet..

Totally different issues with this cat. This dude jumps out of windows because he is high and has ties to some shady people. As soon as this guy gets paid, lookout.

With the DL depth this year, Nkemdiche is off my board....

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Add this for Alexander under cons: benefited from raping receivers 15 yards down field frequently which will draw a plethora flags in the NFL.

You sure we're not talking about Peters again? Or Smith, for that matter? Smith absolutely physically mauled guys - it was his calling card.

Unless you're just blatant (and frankly, stupid) about it, you'll be fine. Don't be Brandon Browner.

Any press-man system is going to have its fair share of PI flags; they're a cost of doing business. I don't see Alexander being significantly more prone to them than any CB we'd want in this system. The system needs physical DBs, if you aren't willing to get into a WRs body, you're probably going to fail in this system anyway.

[The Franchise]

Peters situation is nothing like that dipshits. Peters didn't throw his teammates under the bus. He owned up to it and said that he could understand why he was kicked off and that he didn't blame his coach.

[kccrow]

Going to add one maybe people don't expect to fall, but I do. Corey Coleman. Some insane talent at D-line and some expected moving and shaking in the first round could push several receivers down further than expected.

[RunKC]

Originally Posted by kccrow

Going to add one maybe people don't expect to fall, but I do. Corey Coleman. Some insane talent at D-line and some expected moving and shaking in the first round could push several receivers down further than expected.

This is definitely a possibility, but how much would a first round WR play with Maclin, Conley, Streater and Andy's favorite (Wilson) ahead of him as well as WR's never doing much year 1 of Andy's system?

[kccrow]

Originally Posted by RunKC

This is definitely a possibility, but how much would a first round WR play with Maclin, Conley, Streater and Andy's favorite (Wilson) ahead of him as well as WR's never doing much year 1 of Andy's system?

If you want my honest opinion, I think Conley is the only one worth talking about.

Wilson, while a nice story, is mediocre. He would function ok as a slot, but he's not a guy I think is going to get all that much better than he is right now. He is what he is. He's not a play-maker, he hasn't shown that ability. He can get some catches in this league and he's worth a roster spot. I don't think he should be starting by any means, especially on the outside. I wish he had something as a returner. I think he's a quality #4.

Rod Streater, he's a stop-gap. I wanted the Chiefs to pick him up because he has shown that ability in the past to be a #2 in this league. He's on a 1-year deal. He had some problems the past couple of years. I don't know if he will ever be the same player. I don't think you head into a draft counting on that.

Conley is interesting to me. I think his ceiling is a #2, but he has to develop. He didn't do much as a rookie. At this point, he's another #4 guy. He's a guy that can go deep, he can be a player in the red zone, but he hasn't made an impact on the outside as a starter in regular sets. I want more from this kid, he's got the athletic ability and pretty solid hands. Even if I think Conley develops as a #2, that doesn't preclude taking Coleman in round 1.

Andy Reid likes an explosive offense. Explosive offenses, they all have that quality slot. I'm not talking about just a good player, I'm talking about a slot receiver that leads the team in receptions or is at least in second place. You look at Green Bay with the ascent of Randall Cobb, you look at the Emmanuel Sanders, and so on. If you can make your offense that much more dynamic, as a playoff caliber team, then why not do it?

This isn't a team with "needs" as much as it is one with opportunities to strengthen units. The Chiefs have 3 corners that can step in day 1 and play. The Chiefs pretty much have a day 1 ready defense. The biggest hole is maybe at OG, so do you take Cody Whitehair in one? Or, do you make yourself more explosive as a team and worry about guard later?

That's kind of the deal with WR early, be more explosive offensively and quit trying to be "just good enough." We saw what "just good enough" got the Chiefs. The Patriots acquired a top-level tight end even though they already had one, they made themselves more dynamic. You never stop trying to make a team better.

For all the arguments for a CB in round 1 from this board, it sure gets stupid around here about WRs. You have Peters, Gaines, and Nelson at CB. How is that worse than Maclin, Wilson, Conley at WR? The truth is, it isn't. Just as much as a 1st round CB can make the defensive backfield better, so too can a WR make that group better. Neither group needs a starter, but a better option than currently in place strengthens the unit.


Now with regards to a run on receivers in the 20's, that's debatable. The quality of defensive lineman and the moves I expect to be made for corners in that range trumps the quality of receivers. We'll see how that plays out. I'm just saying that it is very possible that those are the reasons a player like Coleman drops to the Chiefs at 28.