The MLB lockout thread

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Well, any owner who accepted millions in subsidies or public funding for stadiums deserves to be considered a bastard.

The problem I have with that is seeing an owner going to the government officials and saying we need this public subsidized ballpark to compete with the Yankees and Dodgers.

Once they get it, like the Pirates did with PNC Park and the Marlins with LoanDepot Park, their operating behavior in terms of being competitive and being more aggressive with player spending was not much different when they didn't have the new ballpark.

They still operate like the A's and Rays do in their dumps of a ballpark.

[Ocotillo]

I was in FL. We never offered the Int’l Draft. We did discuss it, but MLB told us they were NOT going to offer anything for it. At that point, we informed all players & agreed to no draft.

This is MLB muddying the waters & deflecting blame. Fans, pls hang in there with us.

— Max Scherzer (@Max_Scherzer) March 10, 2022

MLB and PA tonight continuing to discuss int’l draft/qualifying offer issue, per league official. MLB wants it resolved before negotiating rest of deal. League received union counter after 6pE deadline. Parties will determine number of games in season if agreement is reached.

— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) March 10, 2022

It makes no sense for the season to be short-circuited by a dispute over the international draft. I get that players thought the concept came up late but it makes no sense players were so influenced to protect the awful current system by David Ortiz and others for no good reason.

— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 10, 2022

Sources: Indeed, the sides will talk tonight about the international draft proposal iniated by Manfred Tuesday night and put forth by the union just after the 6 pm deadline. Hope exists! https://t.co/YMAzeodtqZ

— Jon Heyman (@JonHeyman) March 10, 2022

[KC_Connection]

Hope exists

Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it. Although, as mentioned, if the sticking point really is an international draft for either side, that makes no sense for anyone involved.

[BigRedChief]

This has all been about the richest players. I guess all the players think they are all going to get $100+ million contracts too.

[TribalElder]

Have a friend who is a long time baseball fanatic tell me today he is done with MLB

mentioned something about DH coming to national league along with some other bullshit changes

baseball can't get out of it's own way

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by TribalElder

Have a friend who is a long time baseball fanatic tell me today he is done with MLB

mentioned something about DH coming to national league along with some other bullshit changes

baseball can't get out of it's own way

I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life. Probably as informed a fan as you’ll find.

If it wasn’t for a some long term fantasy leagues I’ve been in for 25, 15 and 13 yrs respectively, I would barely even watch it anymore.

It’s just a bad product. The game is boring.

And that sucks because the talent level is absolutely ridiculous. There are so many simple fixes that could get the game back to being an action packed, exciting sport.

But inertia is crippling it.

Just give me the goddamn wheel and I’ll have it fixed by June.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life. Probably as informed a fan as you’ll find.

If it wasn’t for a some long term fantasy leagues I’ve been in for 25, 15 and 13 yrs respectively, I would barely even watch it anymore.

It’s just a bad product. The game is boring.

And that sucks because the talent level is absolutely ridiculous. There are so many simple fixes that could get the game back to being an action packed, exciting sport.

But inertia is crippling it.

Just give me the goddamn wheel and I’ll have it fixed by June.

I’m curious as to what your ideas are and I’m not even trolling because I 100% agree with you…

I go back and watch random 90s highlights/games on YouTube and that’s the baseball I miss….not even talking about the roid era. Pitchers that could actually PITCH and work a count, zone, and had more than a fastball and slider. Basesteali g, defense, guys hitting for average, strategy, all along with your power guys, etc.

Not to mention how many teams, lineups, superstars, and even managers were recognizable and known…

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Jerm

I’m curious as to what your ideas are and I’m not even trolling because I 100% agree with you…

I go back and watch random 90s highlights/games on YouTube and that’s the baseball I miss….not even talking about the roid era. Pitchers that could actually PITCH and work a count, zone, and had more than a fastball and slider. Basesteali g, defense, guys hitting for average, strategy, all along with your power guys, etc.

Not to mention how many teams, lineups, superstars, and even managers were recognizable and known…

I said it earlier in this thread but so much about the game would be corrected overnight if we moved the fences back even 10 feet and eliminated cheap power. I went over the various impacts it would have; I can provide the link to the post if you're interested. Bottom line is that bigger OFs require faster OFers and hitters have to really 'earn' their homers so they'll do more to take advantage of those big power alleys. And with faster players on the field, you'll see more baserunning.

I absolutely love the idea of allowing the DH only when the starting pitcher is in the game. This will encourage organizations to teach their SPs to get deeper into the games and maybe encourage leaving them out there to face the order a 3rd time through. If pitchers aren't taught to just fire fastballs past guys and instead try to work on pitch efficiency, suddenly you have more active IFs and OFers as well.

Curtail the shift at least to where IFers have to stay on the IF. If hitters are rewarded more for putting the ball in play, they'll make a more concerted effort to do so. Additionally, eliminating the shift takes more sub-standard fielders off the field because you can't hide them through shifting them. Now you have even more athletically gifted players on the infield to go with having more athletic OFers.

I like the idea of making the bases a little bit bigger, again to encourage more baserunning and more contact so that more guys can steal and/or beat out IF squibbers. Think of how many bang/bang plays there are on SBs. Now make the bases 4 inches wider. That gives the runner 8 inches to work with and that's a HUGE difference.

I need to see more data on moving the mound. The math checks out but the results over a mere month haven't given us enough information. But barring moving the mound, start enforcing the top of the strike zone or maybe even bring it down a tick (even half a baseball would make a big difference; but a full ball wouldn't bother me any). Guys throw so damn hard that expecting hitters to just be able to catch up to 98 at the letters when you can just start throwing a half dozen fresh relievers at them each game is nuts. Bring the zone down a little so that high fastballs aren't a death sentence.

Additionally, you'll now make curveballs that much more effective because they typically work well when they encourage hitters to swing before they dive down in the zone. If hitters are seeing more 'hittable' pitches up, they'll start offering at them more and be fooled by that curve more as well. So that will bring back that big overhand curve that is just damn nice when done well. The problem is that it's really a feel pitch whereas you can just grip and rip a slider. And with the slider tunneling off the fastball, there's just very little utility in trying to learn a good curve when the slider's equally effective and a hell of a lot easier. Suddenly if the high fastball isn't quite as effective, the curve may be a necessary weapon to keep guys honest. You'll also, due to the changes made w/ the DH above, encourage the return of the good ol' fashion sinkerballer that works down the zone and looks for soft contact.

So now you have more athletes on the field, more action on the bases, a broader variety of pitchers that can succeed. You'll see fewer injuries because these pitchers aren't going max-effort on every delivery anymore. I think changing the options and service time rules to that teams aren't encouraged to bring up middle-tier arms from the minors and just churn and burn them until they blow up will be good for the sport and the players. Again, just taking one more area where guys are just throwing as goddamn hard as they can and limiting it a tick.

If you have fields that are geographically incapable of moving the fences back for some reason, deaden the ball there. I think Fenway is the primary example I can think of, but there may be a couple others. And even Fenway could do it if they'd get rid of the Monster seats. They won't do it voluntarily, but it could be foisted onto them.

And then again - just put in a hard revenue split with ceilings and floors for team spending. And robust revenue sharing. Baseball has 'parity' in its champions because it's a random ass sport, not because teams are truly on any sort of level playing field. Fix that. A sport cannot thrive with this kind of have/have not setup.

[Ocotillo]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I said it earlier in this thread but so much about the game would be corrected overnight if we moved the fences back even 10 feet and eliminated cheap power. I went over the various impacts it would have; I can provide the link to the post if you're interested. Bottom line is that bigger OFs require faster OFers and hitters have to really 'earn' their homers so they'll do more to take advantage of those big power alleys. And with faster players on the field, you'll see more baserunning.

I'm all for this idea but I just don't see it being implemented.

Even the so called newer pitcher's parks -- AT&T Park, Petco Park, Citi Field -- have moved their fences in. AT&T and Petco both had these extreme triples alleys and the Giants and Padres reduced their effect by bringing in the fences.

The worst part is I think today's hitters are so spoiled. They think they're entitled to a certain amount of home runs. Any story about a tough HR ballpark is usually written about in the press by a hitter complaining about the dimensions. I remember when the Padres moved into Petco and Phil Nevin complained all the time about the atmospheric conditions not playing favorably to power hitters.

The players today don't know the precedent of the game, when old Yankee Stadium was 399 to left-center, old Tiger Stadium was 440 feet to center, Polo Grounds was 483 feet to center, Forbes Field was 360 to LF, 462 to the deepest corner, 442 to CF and 376 to RF.

It would be great if baseball went back to its roots with more expansive outfields of grass but this generation of player hasn't been conditioned to accept a 15-home run season even though the metrics we have will still rate them favorably with park effects.

[Jerm]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I said it earlier in this thread but so much about the game would be corrected overnight if we moved the fences back even 10 feet and eliminated cheap power. I went over the various impacts it would have; I can provide the link to the post if you're interested. Bottom line is that bigger OFs require faster OFers and hitters have to really 'earn' their homers so they'll do more to take advantage of those big power alleys. And with faster players on the field, you'll see more baserunning.

I absolutely love the idea of allowing the DH only when the starting pitcher is in the game. This will encourage organizations to teach their SPs to get deeper into the games and maybe encourage leaving them out there to face the order a 3rd time through. If pitchers aren't taught to just fire fastballs past guys and instead try to work on pitch efficiency, suddenly you have more active IFs and OFers as well.

Curtail the shift at least to where IFers have to stay on the IF. If hitters are rewarded more for putting the ball in play, they'll make a more concerted effort to do so. Additionally, eliminating the shift takes more sub-standard fielders off the field because you can't hide them through shifting them. Now you have even more athletically gifted players on the infield to go with having more athletic OFers.

I like the idea of making the bases a little bit bigger, again to encourage more baserunning and more contact so that more guys can steal and/or beat out IF squibbers. Think of how many bang/bang plays there are on SBs. Now make the bases 4 inches wider. That gives the runner 8 inches to work with and that's a HUGE difference.

I need to see more data on moving the mound. The math checks out but the results over a mere month haven't given us enough information. But barring moving the mound, start enforcing the top of the strike zone or maybe even bring it down a tick (even half a baseball would make a big difference; but a full ball wouldn't bother me any). Guys throw so damn hard that expecting hitters to just be able to catch up to 98 at the letters when you can just start throwing a half dozen fresh relievers at them each game is nuts. Bring the zone down a little so that high fastballs aren't a death sentence.

Additionally, you'll now make curveballs that much more effective because they typically work well when they encourage hitters to swing before they dive down in the zone. If hitters are seeing more 'hittable' pitches up, they'll start offering at them more and be fooled by that curve more as well. So that will bring back that big overhand curve that is just damn nice when done well. The problem is that it's really a feel pitch whereas you can just grip and rip a slider. And with the slider tunneling off the fastball, there's just very little utility in trying to learn a good curve when the slider's equally effective and a hell of a lot easier. Suddenly if the high fastball isn't quite as effective, the curve may be a necessary weapon to keep guys honest. You'll also, due to the changes made w/ the DH above, encourage the return of the good ol' fashion sinkerballer that works down the zone and looks for soft contact.

So now you have more athletes on the field, more action on the bases, a broader variety of pitchers that can succeed. You'll see fewer injuries because these pitchers aren't going max-effort on every delivery anymore. I think changing the options and service time rules to that teams aren't encouraged to bring up middle-tier arms from the minors and just churn and burn them until they blow up will be good for the sport and the players. Again, just taking one more area where guys are just throwing as goddamn hard as they can and limiting it a tick.

If you have fields that are geographically incapable of moving the fences back for some reason, deaden the ball there. I think Fenway is the primary example I can think of, but there may be a couple others. And even Fenway could do it if they'd get rid of the Monster seats. They won't do it voluntarily, but it could be foisted onto them.

And then again - just put in a hard revenue split with ceilings and floors for team spending. And robust revenue sharing. Baseball has 'parity' in its champions because it's a random ass sport, not because teams are truly on any sort of level playing field. Fix that. A sport cannot thrive with this kind of have/have not setup.

Interesting ideas….sound rad, I’m down.

[KChiefs1]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I’ve been a baseball fan my whole life. Probably as informed a fan as you’ll find.

If it wasn’t for a some long term fantasy leagues I’ve been in for 25, 15 and 13 yrs respectively, I would barely even watch it anymore.

It’s just a bad product. The game is boring.

And that sucks because the talent level is absolutely ridiculous. There are so many simple fixes that could get the game back to being an action packed, exciting sport.

But inertia is crippling it.

Just give me the goddamn wheel and I’ll have it fixed by June.

That’s the problem…no one is at the wheel & it’s heading for a cliff about ready to do a Thelma & Louise.

MLB/MLBPA are killing the game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by KChiefs1

That’s the problem…no one is at the wheel & it’s heading for a cliff about ready to do a Thelma & Louise.

MLB/MLBPA are killing the game.

I promise to be a benevolent God.

I'll return the league to The Golden Path.

Just trust me. I've got this.

[George Liquor]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I promise to be a benevolent God.

I'll return the league to The Golden Path.

Just trust me. I've got this.

Just let em start roiding again. They're probably going to need it.

[Jerm]

Oh and analytics have killed what’s great about the game too….

[dallaschiefsfan]

Originally Posted by Jerm

Oh and analytics have killed what’s great about the game too….

Analytics isn't the problem - but it DOES tell you the problem. Analytics have effectively told us that bad/boring baseball is what wins games.
You can only change what you have control over. And so...while DJ'sLN is generally doing good work in this thread, I'd like to disagree on the point about the fences. To me, the more controllable thing is the ball. Find the most standard, least juiced ball from the last 30 years...bring the seams back up to size and watch the cheap home runs go away.

When you take cheap home runs away, the hitter can then work towards the obvious advantage the pitchers have with the non-juiced ball and start learning other techniques for hitting besides bombs-away. Maybe even a revival of the Walt Hriniak approach to putting the ball in play. Over all, I also love the shorter base path made by the larger bases, shift-banning and finally, the institution of robo-ump behind the plate so that we can stop making the game about the pathetic low-life umps that enter god-mode and squeeze the pitchers, just because they can. Give pitchers their corners and edges and guys will start learning new ways to get the ball into play.