NFL Is Rigged: Wild Card Round

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by TimBone

Dude. Listen. No one is arguing that the refs don't influence games with bad calls. Yes, sometimes the refs suck ass at their jobs. And yeah, they need to be held to a higher standard. No one is going to disagree with you on that.

This thread is about refs purposely influencing games for rigging purposes.

Unless that's what you're arguing in your post. Are you arguing that the best way the league found to rig the Bengals-Raiders game was to have the officials "accidentally" blow a whistle mid-play and then act like it never happened?

Is that where you're at?

I'm "at the point" that says we don't know that the NFL does or doesn't have part time employees that influence games using the very gray area of whistles. The league has done a lot to make sure certain calls aren't reviewable (part of the gray area), all by a group of people who don't ever appear to be graded and disciplined when they make mistakes.

So when people go to the extreme of saying "it's rigged" (a harsh thing to say) that's one thing, but by the NFL not having any apparent review process of their officials, and if (if....) there is one, it doesn't seem to result in any disciplinary actions for those infractions (making bad calls, calling a game unequally, and supposedly missing calls).

Why? Why is it that these people are evidently above scrutiny? And if people they are scrutinized by their employer, show me proof.

My thought is that they (the officials) don't get specific orders from the league, that would be trackable. I'm more of the mindset that says that in the process of becoming an NFL official that those who are selected aren't solely selected on their knowledge of the complex rule book, and here comes the tinfoil hat comment (!!!), I think they limit the candidates on the tendencies they shown toward understanding not only the rules, but also the business of entertainment.

Yeah, wild, I know... But when you look at the totality of what we see, not that there aren't exceptions, we see week in and week out a lot (but not 100%) officiating that tends to favor the NFL's bottom line and promote NFL-favorable story lines. From blowing whistles if a favored QB gets hit but letting other QBs get pummeled, to calling ticky-tac DPI calls while ignoring WR push-offs.

Again, I'm only suggesting the people who have the ability to greatly influence the outcome of games with their whistles and flags, don't appear to be held to a standard by their employer. The very group that's in charge of holding other league employees to standards. That's an issue.

In before: "Because I have no answer for that (admitting that there's no proof that the NFL holds their officials to any standard, much less a high standard), I'll just claim you're wearing a tinfoil hat and should never watch football again."

"Proof" goes both ways...

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I'm "at the point" that says we don't know that the NFL does or doesn't have part time employees that influence games using the very gray area of whistles. The league has done a lot to make sure certain calls aren't reviewable (part of the gray area), all by a group of people who don't ever appear to be graded and disciplined when they make mistakes.



So when people go to the extreme of saying "it's rigged" (a harsh thing to say) that's one thing, but by the NFL not having any apparent review process of their officials, and if (if....) there is one, it doesn't seem to result in any disciplinary actions for those infractions (making bad calls, calling a game unequally, and supposedly missing calls).



Why? Why is it that these people are evidently above scrutiny? And if people they are scrutinized by their employer, show me proof.



My thought is that they (the officials) don't get specific orders from the league, that would be trackable. I'm more of the mindset that says that in the process of becoming an NFL official that those who are selected aren't solely selected on their knowledge of the complex rule book, and here comes the tinfoil hat comment (!!!), I think they limit the candidates on the tendencies they shown toward understanding not only the rules, but also the business of entertainment.



Yeah, wild, I know... But when you look at the totality of what we see, not that there aren't exceptions, we see week in and week out a lot (but not 100%) officiating that tends to favor the NFL's bottom line and promote NFL-favorable story lines. From blowing whistles if a favored QB gets hit but letting other QBs get pummeled, to calling ticky-tac DPI calls while ignoring WR push-offs.



Again, I'm only suggesting the people who have the ability to greatly influence the outcome of games with their whistles and flags, don't appear to be held to a standard by their employer. The very group that's in charge of holding other league employees to standards. That's an issue.



In before: "Because I have no answer for that (admitting that there's no proof that the NFL holds their officials to any standard, much less a high standard), I'll just claim you're wearing a tinfoil hat and should never watch football again."



"Proof" goes both ways...

Listen, man. I just want statements. You and BlackOp both have a way of making long posts that don't really say shit.

I just need a yes or no. You believe the WhistleGate play yesterday was purposely done by the refs? Be it for profits, entertainment, ratings. You believe it was a purposeful incident?

I'm on record as saying it was an incompetent action by an official. A mistake that may have had an affect on the overall outcome of the game.

If you're saying it was purposeful, why would they choose that way to alter a game outcome. It's a really controversial way to go about it. Why would they not choose a more subtle, acceptable way?

Are you saying they wanted NFL circles talking about that controversy today? Is that what you mean by entertainment?

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by TimBone

Listen, man. I just want statements. You and BlackOp both have a way of making long posts that don't really say shit.

I just need a yes or no. You believe the WhistleGate play yesterday was purposely done by the refs? Be it for profits, entertainment, ratings. You believe it was a purposeful incident?

I'm on record as saying it was an incompetent action by an official. A mistake that may have had an affect on the overall outcome of the game.

If you're saying it was purposeful, why would they choose that way to alter a game outcome. It's a really controversial way to go about it. Why would they not choose a more subtle, acceptable way?

Are you saying they wanted NFL circles talking about that controversy today? Is that what you mean by entertainment?

I'll answer your question, yes, I believe the NFL hires officials who are like-minded and make calls, selectively, to influence the outcome of games to benefit the league's goals of excitement, traditions, storylines, and of growing their product and profits.

Now your turn, do you have proof that the NFL grades the officials? Not suggestions of a program; IOW do you have a grade card to prove they have this program?

I bet you don't. All you have is faith in the face of questionable and timely calls...

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I'll answer your question, yes, I believe the NFL hires officials who are like-minded and make calls, selectively, to influence the outcome of games to benefit the league's goals of excitement, traditions, storylines, and of growing their product and profits.



Now your turn, do you have proof that the NFL grades the officials? Not suggestions of a program; IOW do you have a grade card to prove they have this program?



I bet you don't. All you have is faith in the face of questionable and timely calls...

No, you still didn't answer specifically about yesterday's call.

You believe the early whistle play was done purposefully?

Also, I'm not sure why you think I'm emotional. I find this all very silly.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by TimBone

No, you still didn't answer specifically about yesterday's call.

You believe the early whistle play was done purposefully?

Also, I'm not sure why you think I'm emotional. I find this all very silly.

#1 I think your emotional because of your replies and need to defend the league.

#2 I have no idea if it was purposeful, just like you have no proof of a real and effective officials review program that would hold the official accountable for that early whistle.

Let's face it, your side won't accept anything short of a memo sent to the officials on NFL letterhead that says which games should be won by which teams. Just like "I" (and it's literally just me) won't accept anything short of a grade card that shows that the official in question ****ed up, will be held accountable, and what being accountable means.

When players screw up, we hear all about their fines and suspensions, why not the officials?

Again, this won't ever get solved because there are no memos to officials, and there's no evidence of grade cards or discipline awarded to officials.

It's all good, there's no hate, just differing opinions of what we're all seeing.

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

#1 I think your emotional because of your replies and need to defend the league.



#2 I have no idea if it was purposeful, just like you have no proof of a real and effective officials review program that would hold the official accountable for that early whistle.



Let's face it, your side won't accept anything short of a memo sent to the officials on NFL letterhead that says which games should be won by which teams. Just like "I" (and it's literally just me) won't accept anything short of a grade card that shows that the official in question ****ed up, will be held accountable, and what being accountable means.



When players screw up, we hear all about their fines and suspensions, why not the officials?



Again, this won't ever get solved because there are no memos to officials, and there's no evidence of grade cards or discipline awarded to officials.



It's all good, there's no hate, just differing opinions of what we're all seeing.

I think you've confused my position. I'm not defending the league at all. I'm on the record in one of these rigging threads saying officiating is a problem. I also believe the officials should be held more accountable. The job should be full time, and there should be consequences for continued failures in officiating.

I just think the officiating problem is more due to ineptitude than any conspiracy to rig games a certain way. The NFL makes a shit ton of money as it stands. There's no need to rig things a certain way. It doesn't matter which teams make the playoffs or which team wins the Super Bowl. Fans will be fans, and money will be made. Why would the NFL risk tarnishing itself with rigging games?

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by TimBone

I think you've confused my position. I'm not defending the league at all. I'm on the record in one of these rigging threads saying officiating is a problem. I also believe the officials should be held more accountable. The job should be full time, and there should be consequences for continued failures in officiating.

I just think the officiating problem is more due to ineptitude than any conspiracy to rig games a certain way. The NFL makes a shit ton of money as it stands. There's no need to rig things a certain way. It doesn't matter which teams make the playoffs or which team wins the Super Bowl. Fans will be fans, and money will be made. Why would the NFL risk tarnishing itself with rigging games?

That's cool. I guess we're just a shade different then, I do think the NFL hires officials who are "league first" minded and all that that implies (our difference), protects them later (I think we agree there), and the league creates rules that allow for mistakes made by officials to not be able to be overturned (I think we agree there too).

If I were king for a day!!!

[Curé]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I'm "at the point" that says we don't know that the NFL does or doesn't have part time employees that influence games using the very gray area of whistles. The league has done a lot to make sure certain calls aren't reviewable (part of the gray area), all by a group of people who don't ever appear to be graded and disciplined when they make mistakes.

So when people go to the extreme of saying "it's rigged" (a harsh thing to say) that's one thing, but by the NFL not having any apparent review process of their officials, and if (if....) there is one, it doesn't seem to result in any disciplinary actions for those infractions (making bad calls, calling a game unequally, and supposedly missing calls).

Why? Why is it that these people are evidently above scrutiny? And if people they are scrutinized by their employer, show me proof.

My thought is that they (the officials) don't get specific orders from the league, that would be trackable. I'm more of the mindset that says that in the process of becoming an NFL official that those who are selected aren't solely selected on their knowledge of the complex rule book, and here comes the tinfoil hat comment (!!!), I think they limit the candidates on the tendencies they shown toward understanding not only the rules, but also the business of entertainment.

Yeah, wild, I know... But when you look at the totality of what we see, not that there aren't exceptions, we see week in and week out a lot (but not 100%) officiating that tends to favor the NFL's bottom line and promote NFL-favorable story lines. From blowing whistles if a favored QB gets hit but letting other QBs get pummeled, to calling ticky-tac DPI calls while ignoring WR push-offs.

Again, I'm only suggesting the people who have the ability to greatly influence the outcome of games with their whistles and flags, don't appear to be held to a standard by their employer. The very group that's in charge of holding other league employees to standards. That's an issue.

In before: "Because I have no answer for that (admitting that there's no proof that the NFL holds their officials to any standard, much less a high standard), I'll just claim you're wearing a tinfoil hat and should never watch football again."

"Proof" goes both ways...

i used something called the google. i didn't have to go thru 31 million results. this was result 2:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ir-performance

I wanted to know more, however, so I reached out to former NFL official Jerry Frump, who refereed three regular-season games during the NFL's 2012 lockout of the NFL Referees Association.

"The NFL has a very sophisticated evaluation system," Frump told me. "Every single play is graded."

Every week, Frump told me, every official's performance on every play is reviewed by league staff members with on-field officiating experience. Further, Frump said, there's "a live evaluation being done by somebody on-site," and the report from the observer is taken into account along with the film study grades.

"Just like the players shoot for the postseason," Frump told me, "everybody is looking for ways to improve themselves, because the grading system determines who goes and works the postseason games."

[TimBone]

Originally Posted by Curé

i used something called the google. i didn't have to go thru 31 million results. this was result 2:



https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ir-performance

I've already explained to him that the information is available.

He doesn't want it. He wants to have something to blame when the Chiefs lose.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by TimBone

I've already explained to him that the information is available.

He doesn't want it. He wants to have something to blame when the Chiefs lose.

That isn't true at all, you're being emotional, I'm just asking for a grade card. We see stats on player performance, why not stats on the officials?

I know, I know, officiating - it's a tough job (like being a linebacker is easy), and "faith"...

Stop being emotional and back up what your belief with proof.

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Curé

i used something called the google. i didn't have to go thru 31 million results. this was result 2:

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/...ir-performance

I've read that before, but there's no proof, and certainly no sign that disciplinary actions were taken for bad/missed calls. Show me a grade card... Otherwise there's no proof of any of this.

I'm not saying there's not a meeting, but I think they show up more for the coffee and donuts more than anything.

And if the only incentive is post-season officiating, well that's pretty weak.. I don't believe the program is much more than a lunch club. If it is more, we'd see more evidence week-to-week that the program is working.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by GloryDayz

I've read that before, but there's no proof, and certainly no sign that disciplinary actions were taken for bad/missed calls. Show me a grade card... Otherwise there's no proof of any of this.

I'm not saying there's not a meeting, but I think they show up more for the coffee and donuts more than anything.

And if the only incentive is post-season officiating, well that's pretty weak.. I don't believe the program is much more than a lunch club. If it is more, we'd see more evidence week-to-week that the program is working.

Referee Jerome Boger and the officials from Saturday’s Raiders-Bengals game are not expected to work again this NFL postseason:https://t.co/oPdfnJxQD7

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) January 16, 2022

[GloryDayz]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

Referee Jerome Boger and the officials from Saturday’s Raiders-Bengals game are not expected to work again this NFL postseason:https://t.co/oPdfnJxQD7

— Adam Schefter (@AdamSchefter) January 16, 2022

Adam Schefter works for the NFL? I thought he was just a dude with another opinion? Maybe HE has the memo from the NFL that I'm looking for...

Will the official that granted Tom Terrific 15 yards for something that wasn't roughing the passer be gone too?

Again, without a grading card from the NFL, like us who think the NFL has hired staff who know the deal, it's all just faith (or lack of faith) based on what we're seeing.