NFL likely banning hip-drop tackle

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

So, was last season an outlier or the norm? Because just saying that "13 teams were starting backup QBs," without any context isn't very compelling, or at least it shouldn't be.

And how many of those QBs were injured by drop tackles? Just wondering, because I know at least a couple top-tier QBs were injured in no-contact situations.

I get wanting to keep great players on the field, but we've watched things decline to the point where DEs are hugging QBs instead of tackling them. And LBs/DBs are holding up instead of tackling running QBs for fear of drawing yet another idiotic flag (and a hefty fine from the league).

And at the end of the day, football is a violent extremely physical sport and injuries are going to happen. If you're that concerned about largely accidental injuries, maybe we really should just take the pads off and put the flags on and just play little girl football instead.

Yeah, of course you can’t ban everything. But there are specific plays that are more dangerous than others and hip drops are something like 20x more likely to cause injury. Horse collars are rightfully banned. Things like chop blocks, targeting, roughing the passer… as much as we hate their overenforcement, those types of rules by and large are good for the game.

And these injuries have been impactful. We’re talking playoff players like dak, tyreek, pollard, Andrews.

I agree there is a right way to do this. And I’m guessing the league will see that this enforcement is way too broad. The nfl as with all other restrictions that supposedly were going to end the league always finds ways to adapt. Create a clearer and much more limited definition, teach way better tackling technique and adapt from there.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

Yeah, of course you can’t ban everything. But there are specific plays that are more dangerous than others and hip drops are something like 20x more likely to cause injury. Horse collars are rightfully banned. Things like chop blocks, targeting, roughing the passer… as much as we hate their overenforcement, those types of rules by and large are good for the game.

And these injuries have been impactful. We’re talking playoff players like dak, tyreek, pollard, Andrews.

I agree there is a right way to do this. And I’m guessing the league will see that this enforcement is way too broad. The nfl as with all other restrictions that supposedly were going to end the league always finds ways to adapt. Create a clearer and much more limited definition, teach way better tackling technique and adapt from there.

Dak isn't a great QB. He's pretty freaking average. He just plays for a very visible organization. If he was playing for LAC or CAR, no one would give two shits about that guy. Hell, he might be out of the league a long time ago in those situations.

And while I could go on about the way these rules are enforced, the problem is a lot deeper than that, imo.

OL play is pretty mediocre across the league, probably due in large part to the lack of real padded practices/the reduction of preseason games/teams being unwilling to play starters in those preseason games.

And then there's the simple fact that the NFL has been cooking the rules for years now to allow mediocre QBs to be starters. QBs that can't read defensive alignments pre-snap so consequently don't make proper protection adjustments (or just never do it at all), that aren't big enough to play in the NFL, or just throw their receivers into dangerous situations on a weekly basis.

Point being, it's the quality of play that's the bigger issue when it comes to injuries, not how defenders are tackling.

Making it harder for defenses to play isn't going to fix things. Making QBs, receivers and OLs better at their jobs would do more to protect players, imo.

[Rausch]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Making it harder for defenses to play isn't going to fix things. Making QBs, receivers and OLs better at their jobs would do more to protect players, imo.

That's not going to happen when you prioritize running fast over reading a defense fast...

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by Rausch

That's not going to happen when you prioritize running fast over reading a defense fast...

Well, that's kind of my point. The game itself is descending into mediocrity, because the league offices value flash and speed and scoring over quality play. Which is how we get QBs like Lamar/Tua/Hurts/whoever getting $200+ million, when in 1980 (or the '90s), they probably wouldn't last more than a couple seasons, because no team would see them as a true elite QBs that could get them to the SB.

[SAGA45]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Well, that's kind of my point. The game itself is descending into mediocrity, because the league offices value flash and speed and scoring over quality play. Which is how we get QBs like Lamar/Tua/Hurts/whoever getting $200+ million, when in 1980 (or the '90s), they probably wouldn't last more than a couple seasons, because no team would see them as a true elite QBs that could get them to the SB.

That and the very strong likelihood that they'd be dead, especially Tua.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by SAGA45

That and the very strong likelihood that they'd be dead, especially Tua.

Well, yeah. Especially Tua. Dude is just fragile. Add in the fact that he isn't mobile, can't seem to execute a timing pass with any consistency, is below average throwing outside the numbers . . . he wouldn't have even been good enough to keep as a backup at the time. Probably never gets drafted.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Dak isn't a great QB. He's pretty freaking average. He just plays for a very visible organization. If he was playing for LAC or CAR, no one would give two shits about that guy. Hell, he might be out of the league a long time ago in those situations.

And while I could go on about the way these rules are enforced, the problem is a lot deeper than that, imo.

OL play is pretty mediocre across the league, probably due in large part to the lack of real padded practices/the reduction of preseason games/teams being unwilling to play starters in those preseason games.

And then there's the simple fact that the NFL has been cooking the rules for years now to allow mediocre QBs to be starters. QBs that can't read defensive alignments pre-snap so consequently don't make proper protection adjustments (or just never do it at all), that aren't big enough to play in the NFL, or just throw their receivers into dangerous situations on a weekly basis.

Point being, it's the quality of play that's the bigger issue when it comes to injuries, not how defenders are tackling.

Making it harder for defenses to play isn't going to fix things. Making QBs, receivers and OLs better at their jobs would do more to protect players, imo.

I am by no means saying dak is a good qb. But when a teams entire season is flushed down the toilet because of a season ending injury it’s not good for the game. And when guys like Skylar Thompson and josh Johnson and Tyler Huntley and henne play significant playoff minutes that is not good for the game either.

I agree offenses will eventually need to take some responsibility too. But tackling is a very big thing too. I would much rather see DBs for example wrap up, tackle and play the ball versus guys like Cisco who constantly use hit sticking guys as a crutch. Yeah I was way more outraged of defenses routinely knocking juju and Mvs out of games 2 years ago than I was at ever the thought they might stop guys like Cisco from doing it.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

I am by no means saying dak is a good qb. But when a teams entire season is flushed down the toilet because of a season ending injury it’s not good for the game. And when guys like Skylar Thompson and josh Johnson and Tyler Huntley and henne play significant playoff minutes that is not good for the game either.

I agree offenses will eventually need to take some responsibility too. But tackling is a very big thing too. I would much rather see DBs for example wrap up, tackle and play the ball versus guys like Cisco who constantly use hit sticking guys as a crutch. Yeah I was way more outraged of defenses routinely knocking juju and Mvs out of games 2 years ago than I was at ever the thought they might stop guys like Cisco from doing it.

Go back to that clip above. Look at :03/:13 seconds just as examples. You're the DB: tell me what the proper way is to tackle that guy in those two examples please. I mean, I only played a couple years in HS, and was never more than a backup/utility player, so you tell me; how is he supposed to tackle those players 'properly' without doing what he did in both cases.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Go back to that clip above. Look at :03/:13 seconds just as examples. You're the DB: tell me what the proper way is to tackle that guy in those two examples please. I mean, I only played a couple years in HS, and was never more than a backup/utility player, so you tell me; how is he supposed to tackle those players 'properly' without doing what he did in both cases.

1) Take a better angle or
2) Slow the player down and wait for help.

I don't think anyone's arguing that this could result in a few extra yards. That's no different than essentially every safety-related change they've made to the game, and yet we're all still watching.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by DaFace

1) Take a better angle or
2) Slow the player down and wait for help.

I don't think anyone's arguing that this could result in a few extra yards. That's no different than essentially every safety-related change they've made to the game, and yet we're all still watching.

One of those is Sneed, I believe; he's as fast as it gets in the secondary, so 'taking a better angle,' doesn't really fly for me there.

'Slow the player down and wait for help'? Are you serious? Should he try to make small talk then? Ask him out on a date?

[Pasta Little Brioni]

Originally Posted by DaFace

1) Take a better angle or
2) Slow the player down and wait for help.

I don't think anyone's arguing that this could result in a few extra yards. That's no different than essentially every safety-related change they've made to the game, and yet we're all still watching.

Good lord....

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Go back to that clip above. Look at :03/:13 seconds just as examples. You're the DB: tell me what the proper way is to tackle that guy in those two examples please. I mean, I only played a couple years in HS, and was never more than a backup/utility player, so you tell me; how is he supposed to tackle those players 'properly' without doing what he did in both cases.

If I’m not mistaken the hip drop tackle isn’t being enforced. It’s more the swivel tackle where they don’t want you landing on the dudes legs. It still seems a bit broad and subjective. But just for context, league said they saw it something like 200 times and about 7% got injured. That is very very high especially when these injuries tend to be very serious.

[Megatron96]

Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501

If I’m not mistaken the hip drop tackle isn’t being enforced. It’s more the swivel tackle where they don’t want you landing on the dudes legs. It still seems a bit broad and subjective. But just for context, league said they saw it something like 200 times and about 7% got injured. That is very very high especially when these injuries tend to be very serious.

Again, look at the tape and explain how the defense is supposed to make those tackles?


I mean I get it’s a dangerous tackle. What I don’t get is exactly how the defenders are supposed to make those tackles differently without giving up more yards or possibly even a TD.

[chiefzilla1501]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Again, look at the tape and explain how the defense is supposed to make those tackles?


I mean I get it’s a dangerous tackle. What I don’t get is exactly how the defenders are supposed to make those tackles differently without giving up more yards or possibly even a TD.

https://youtu.be/5KJ9mCbS3rU?si=078ye8udUjAAh9oT
This is a pretty interesting video looking at it from a rugby perspective. The main theme is just trying to avoid tackles that put lots of pressure on the knees and lower body. Football is of course a different animal but a lot of interesting thoughts here.

Every time I see a guys legs pinned under with upper body twisting I cringe.

[DaFace]

Originally Posted by Megatron96

Again, look at the tape and explain how the defense is supposed to make those tackles?


I mean I get it’s a dangerous tackle. What I don’t get is exactly how the defenders are supposed to make those tackles differently without giving up more yards or possibly even a TD.

Again, no one is saying that won't happen. Defenders who end up behind the runner could stop them more easily using a horse collar tackle, so banning those creates situations where the runner gets more yards.

This is a different type of tackle, but the result will be the same. Once or twice a game, a runner might get more yards than they would have before. It's OK. Games will still be fun.