Raiders back in 1st Round

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by Rain Man

I agree. I think the Jets have a mid-term fetus for a GM.

Well he did learn from King Carl.

[Hoover]

So I want to make sure I got this right, Carl is a better GM than the Jets GM, but nowhere near Al Davis or the Rat. Correct?

I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

[HipHopper4Life]

Originally Posted by Hoover

I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

Using this logic, Miami could turn around and tell us "If Phil Buchanon is worth a 2 an a 3, then Surtain should be worth more than that".

[milkman]

Originally Posted by Hoover

So I want to make sure I got this right, Carl is a better GM than the Jets GM, but nowhere near Al Davis or the Rat. Correct?

I think these trades help us get Surtain for a 4th round pick, and also increase the value of one of our safties. If Doug Jolley is worth that, Wesley should bw worth atleast the same to a team in need of a young Saftie.

No, Carl is not a better GM than the Jets GM.
Bradway is just showing what he learned under Carl, and is proving to be equally as bad.

[Gav Daddy]

Originally Posted by SideWinder

No, Carl is not a better GM than the Jets GM.
Bradway is just showing what he learned under Carl, and is proving to be equally as bad.

then keitzman has been up in that arrowhead ass on his radio show about them being cheap at best and incompetent at worst.

whitlock called carl out in the paper today.

the fans are near mutiny on the boards.

this is a quote from carl, while being asked a question by whitlock at yesterday's press conference, "we had a 95% renewal on our season tickets". what an astute thing to say to someone asking about the fans being mad at the lack of f.a. signings the last 2 years on defense.

you will get the 4th best corner in football.

i know how lamar thinks after all this time. you guys should flood those radio shows more often.

[HemiEd]

Originally Posted by Gav Daddy

you will get the 4th best corner in football.

I hope you are correct on this and look forward to your version of the Marus Allen story anytime!

[Gav Daddy]

i actually hope i am not right. i dont want you guys getting surtain. LOL! i just think it's gonna happen.

my opinion on the marcus thing.

he wanted more money before his rookie contract was up.
al agreed.
he then wanted to be the highest paid running back in the league.
again, al agreed.
the following year, eric dickersen signed a contract that made him the new, highest paid running back in the nfl.
marcus wanted al to redo his contract a 3rd time.
al did not agree this time. and rightfully so. can you imagine all this bending backward for a player prior to free agency? hell, team's dont do that now if they dont want to. it's not like al wasnt being more than fair.
marcus ran and bitched about it in the press.
beginning of rift.

al took a wild roulette spin, chance on bo jackson in the 7th round. all this after bo vehemently maintained he would not play football and only baseball. al took a gamble on him changing his mind and it panned out.

at this time bo was a better, fresher running back. i know that sounds crazy, but bo jackson was a bad mofo. also a heisman winner.

al wanted to make bo a running back and marcus a f.b. he figured that would be one helluva backfield with a bad ass like bo, and marcus in the backfield getting lots of touches and catches. think larry centers with the ability to REALLY run and cut when he got hand offs and yac. best possible backfield ever.marcus was a helluva blocker too(tony richardson never once complained about being bounced around to the press that i remember) solid team player who plays for alot less than marcus was getting. even back in those days).

marcus did not want what was best for the TEAM at the time. he wanted what was best for MARCUS. it was simply not good for marcus in his mind.

instead of marcus wanting to utilize the new heisman trophy winner, he decided to pout.

they had a rift, yet al has remained silent. marcus yells and screams to the press every chance he gets and just says, "i dont understand what the problem is". al was always "no comment". marcus would say various things about it over the years, but al was always solid and said nothing.

so when marcus starts getting all the pub around hall of fame time, he starts bringing it back up on t.v. and in the papers. al said nothing. no comment. i dont remember AL bringing it up, when he was getting pub for going into the hall of fame......

if marcus truly wanted to bury the hatchet he would have just called al up. hashed it out in private. this is if we are to believe that marcus is out for altruistic reasons to mend the relationship.keep in mind it was marcus who started the relationship to sour by flapping his gums to the press and bitching about more money when al already took care of him twice.

instead, marcus says on t.v., "that he wants to kiss and make up with al and just put it all behind them, but he doesnt know what the problem is". something to that effect.

it would be a helluva lot more appropriate to just call him. why the need to grandstand?

he knew al wasnt gonna show up on tv and kiss and make up on marcus' terms. al was NOT gonna let marcus look like the good guy after he continually would not honor his contracts and put the organization on front street. this is al davis we are talking about. as secret as they come. this is not your average owner who just hires others to do his work for him. he is not like a snyder who just got wealthy and bought a team as a fan of football.

this is a guy who worked his ass off to get where he is and he deserves some MUTUAL respect on even terms in private. not t.v.. get a grip. we all know al is like howard hughes. he is a workaholic and he is reclusive.

al was not gonna let the guy he thought SCREWED him, make up the time and the place on t.v. of all places. give me a break. LOL


let's face it. this surely is not the whole story. just my TAKE. i am not a mind reader. just observant(LOL) on all raider issues. plus marcus used to be my favorite raider. i was also an s.c. fan at the time as i am now.

that is just a counterpoint to the "al screwed marcus" takes i hear from people sometimes.

all i want to ask people is, how?
who screwed around with who, first?

here is a little something to think about. if al is so bad, why have more people chosen al to introduce them into the hall of fame, than anyone else?

life is all about perception. LOL!!!!

[HolmeZz]

We're not getting Surtain for just a 4th.

[ChiefsCountry]

Originally Posted by HolmeZz

We're not getting Surtain for just a 4th.

4th and 3rd next and maybe a 5th this year or a player. I still think the Dolphins will go for it, they need picks bad.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

4th and 3rd next and maybe a 5th this year or a player. I still think the Dolphins will go for it, they need picks bad.

Not if the Cards, or anyone for that matter,trades a 2nd this year. Shoot, this year's draft is weak anyway so I don't understand why Carl covets the 2nd rounder.

[Nightfyre]

Originally Posted by TEX

Not if the Cards, or anyone for that matter,trades a 2nd this year. Shoot, this year's draft is weak anyway so I don't understand why Carl covets the 2nd rounder.

maybe its because this is the best 2nd round ever seen in a draft before...

[keg in kc]

A 3rd next year is the equivalent of a 4th this year. That won't cut it.

I wouldn't call this draft weak, either. JMO, but I think it's weak in terms of blue chip high first type picks, but I think there's a ton of players who'd fall into the late first to second round range in any draft. There will be some very good players going in the second, third and fourth. Especially at positions we need.

[TEX]

Originally Posted by keg in kc

A 3rd next year is the equivalent of a 4th this year. That won't cut it.

I wouldn't call this draft weak, either. JMO, but I think it's weak in terms of blue chip high first type picks, but I think there's a ton of players who'd fall into the late first to second round range in any draft. There will be some very good players going in the second, third and fourth. Especially at positions we need.

Yeah, I know. But I'd be willing to bet that the one we draft in the 2nd will not be better than Surtain.

[keg in kc]

Originally Posted by TEX

Yeah, I know. But I'd be willing to bet that the one we draft in the 2nd will not be better than Surtain.

I said this earlier on some other thread, I don't remember which one, but I don't think it's a matter of either or. We want to have our cake and eat it to, not Surtain vs. a 2nd round pick, but rather Surtain AND that 2nd round pick. And I have absolutely no problem with that, right up until the night before the draft. Why would we not try to do as much as we can to retain that pick, work a deal for compensation next year? Say, for instance, the idea is to get Surtain via a trade, Carlos Rogers at 15 (won't be there I think, but hypothetically) and then a top DE or LB in the second, who, this year I think, will be a pretty high value. We're looking for immediate impact, remember, and regardless of our history, the more higher picks we have, the better shot we have.

I would work this deal to the last possible moment. Especially since we're still the only team involved (I don't buy the 'zona rumor yet).

Maybe in the end we cave, but we damn well ought to be trying to get the best value we can.

JMO of course. I've got no problem with the way this has gone. We haven't lost Surtain to anyone. Yet. If that happens, well...

[Amnorix]

Herm Edwards (coach of the Jets) is a nice guy, a solid coach, but suffers from the Schottenheimer/Cowher school of being unable to win the big game, for similar reasons. I do like him alot, and think he's a good coach anyway.

Terry Bradway, the GM of the Jets, is a flaming moron. An unbelievable idiot, and I really don't understand how he keeps his job. But, since I hate the Jets and all that they stand for, I applaud his stupidity.

Unfortunately, in this case, it benefits another team I hate -- the damned Raiders.