Illegal Immigration: What should we do?

**Mr. Kotter** · 04-11-2006, 11:42 AM

MODS: I'm interested in finding out what CP members think about this issue, and while I understand it's an issue ripe for political discussion.....I'd ask for it to remain in the Lounge for a couple of days, if at all possible, before moving it to its inevitable death in DC.

Fellow ChiefsPlanet posters: Can we try to have a reasonable discussion over this issue without it becoming too heated and denigrating into purely partisan demagoguery or racist insults? Please?

FWIW, I'm following the debate over immigration legislation somewhat closely, and I'm trying to figure out what the middle ground--if there is any--on the issue might be.

Thanks in advance for you opinions and posts.

Poll to follow, shortly....

cmh6476 · 04-11-2006, 11:43 AM

I have tinted glasses on, so I'll abstain.

tyton75 · 04-11-2006, 11:45 AM

All I have to say is.. I'm all for LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL.. I don't care how long an ILLEGAL has been here, make it legal or get out

Pitt Gorilla · 04-11-2006, 11:45 AM

It's illegal; I'd say the laws should be enforced.

chagrin · 04-11-2006, 11:47 AM

I hear Rain Man is hiring

chagrin · 04-11-2006, 11:49 AM

I think that anything that folks like me say about it will be interpreted as being "racist", and furthermore we will be forced to listen to the 3 headed monster tell us how closed minded we are, I don't think this will work.

jspchief · 04-11-2006, 11:49 AM

I was listening to the radio about Australia's immigration policy, that is based on a point system.

A few things you get points for:
Higher education in your country or this one
ability to speak english
highly skilled professional

I'm sure there are others, but the point is, the emphasis is on letting peopl in that are a boon to the tax pool, and make America smarter.

Of course, that doesn't address the current illegal problem from our southern borders. I think the first step in resolving that issue is sealing the border from illegals. There's little sense in trying to bail water, when we haven't fixed (or even slowed) the leak. Any sort of amnesty program will just encourage the next wave to sneak in and get their free citizenship that the US hands out every 20 years.

Katipan · 04-11-2006, 11:49 AM

Kick them all out and start over.

Everyone drive to a field and pull up a cabbage on your way to work.

**Saulbadguy** · 04-11-2006, 11:51 AM

Set up an Ellis Island type deal to allowed faster processing of immigrants. Set up certain dates throughout the year when people can legally immigrate, and adhere to those standards. Declare amnesty for all those currently in the US, however, set restrictions on what they can and can not do, and if they decide to return to Mexico, they have to come back "legally" through the "Ellis Island".

JMO - I think our friends to the South can be a huge asset rather than a burden.

cmh6476 · 04-11-2006, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyton75

All I have to say is.. I'm all for LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL.. I don't care how long an ILLEGAL has been here, make it legal or get out

My mom was complaining that there might be a kid in her classroom thats illegal, and she doesnt want to see him deported.

I was like, "well if he goes back and reappliess legally, if he even is illegal, then he's fine and can be here."

We just need to figure out how to enforce our laws, moreso than we do now. I mean, even if we say 2-5 years reapply while you are here, 5+ years you can stay and work, and under 2 you need to go back home and apply legally. Well what happens then when those under 2 years dont want to leave, and manage to stay here 7 more years? We're going to have to start placing the burden on the states and employers to check and make sure the people they have working in their state (for state govs) and in their business (for employers) are actually legal and should be in this country.

**Rain Man** · 04-11-2006, 11:51 AM

Simple solution.

1. Enforce the laws. If we can't enforce them, we should change them to something more realistic.

2. If people want to come here and settle and be citizens and and join the American culture, fine. Our current system works for that.

3. If someone wants to come to America and make money and send it back to another country, then we charge them for a "guest worker" visa. We figure out the appropriate cost to ensure that we have enough low-skill workers, but not too many. We then use the money raised to increase border patrols and make sure that any people coming in to export money are paying a fee to do so.

Mile High Mania · 04-11-2006, 11:54 AM

Living in Dallas, I'm very familiar with the issue, but I am by no means an expert on the topic.

What drives me insane is people that get here illegally and are a burden on the system - taxes, schools, medical, etc.

Yes - I understand that for the most part, they do the jobs that nobody else wants. In Dallas there is a TON of contstruction (new homes, roads, etc) that are likely benefiting from illegal immigrants. However, just b/c they're willing to work hard doesn't mean they should get a free pass.

Cross the border LEGALLY and by all means you're welcomed with open arms. Yes, I know that situations on the other side of the border are not ideal, but there is a process.

What kills me is all of these students protesting, skipping school to attend these rallies... I can only imagine that the great majority have no clue as to what they're really protesting. They see it as someone trying to keep the minority down.

That's a story and a view I do not accept.

Get into this country legally... pay your taxes and contribute. Otherwise, deal with your decisions.

**Donger** · 04-11-2006, 11:55 AM

1. Begin protecting our borders. Two warning shots, followed by a head shot. Also, a virtual fence of armed UAVs patrolling 24/7.

2. No amnesty for the criminals already here. They MUST return to their CoO and pay a fine. They can then apply for residency after three years, and comply with all standards that other legals do.

3. Any illegal still found in the country in violation of number 2 is deported and is never allowed residency. If re-enters illegally, he/she is summarily executed.

tyton75 · 04-11-2006, 11:55 AM

Or if all else fails and Fox wants to keep complaining, we can just adopt Mexico's laws on immigration

(they are much more stringent than ours)

chagrin · 04-11-2006, 11:56 AM

Since one can duplicate almost any for of Identification these days, a card system is right out.

I agree with the education and fee based system. Make them truly invest in their future by paying a fee, and somehow find a way to truly educate them about the History of this country.

Whether you like the politics, the President or not, this NOT Deep Space Nine, it's not wayport for transient souls to come take advantage of the welfare system, not vote, not pay taxes, fuck like rabbits and have multiple children at will (for us citizens to pay for) and otherwise just "hang out" and smoke fuggin dope all day.

We can all celebrate our heritage, but let me say this:

My family has been in this country since 1840, my country is America. I will waive the AMERICAN flag anywhere I damn well please in AMERICA. Celebrate where you are from, that's fine, fly your flags, that's fine, but DO NOT FORGET that you live here, in America. Pay taxes like the rest of us.

View Poll Results: What should we do? (Check ALL that apply)
Grant "amnesty" to illegals who've been here at least 2 full years. (time to be negotiated)	8	6.67%
Streamline the naturalization process for current illegals, expediting their road toward citizenship.	13	10.83%
Allow illegals now here to be naturalized, eventually; but crack down on "new" illegals	15	12.50%
Grant eventual citizenship to illegals, but after a waiting period, a symbolic fine, and strict naturalization requirements.	16	13.33%
Crackdown harshly on businesses that are lazy, or who knowingly hire illegals.	57	47.50%
Build a 700 mile fence/wall to be heavily fortified and guarded to stop future illegals.	38	31.67%
Illegals should face a significant fine, and repayment of any back taxes....before being considered for citizenship.	28	23.33%
Illegals here for less than two years should be deported.	23	19.17%
Illegals here from 2-7 years, would be evaluated on a case-by-case basis; good "citizens" could be naturalized, but some would be deported.	24	20.00%
Illegals here for at least 8 years, could apply for expedited citizenship if they've been law-adiding (generally) and held jobs consistently.	24	20.00%
Deport only those illegals who've become problems and have not consistently maintained employment.	20	16.67%
Deport ALL, or nearly all, who entered the country illegally.	55	45.83%
Increase border patrol SUBSTANTIALLY, possibly including use of the armed forces as necessary.	58	48.33%
Utilize armed forces as a routine part of daily border patrol.	38	31.67%
Do whatever GAZ says....	12	10.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 120. You may not vote on this poll

04-11-2006, 11:42 AM
Mr. Kotter The Dude Abides Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Dakota Country Casino cash: $3284285	Illegal Immigration: What should we do? MODS: I'm interested in finding out what CP members think about this issue, and while I understand it's an issue ripe for political discussion.....I'd ask for it to remain in the Lounge for a couple of days, if at all possible, before moving it to its inevitable death in DC. Fellow ChiefsPlanet posters: Can we try to have a reasonable discussion over this issue without it becoming too heated and denigrating into purely partisan demagoguery or racist insults? Please? FWIW, I'm following the debate over immigration legislation somewhat closely, and I'm trying to figure out what the middle ground--if there is any--on the issue might be. Thanks in advance for you opinions and posts. Poll to follow, shortly....
Posts: 46,901

04-11-2006, 11:43 AM	#2
cmh6476 Keep Camp Home! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: St Joe MO Casino cash: $-1003723	I have tinted glasses on, so I'll abstain. __________________ from September to February! from November to April! from April to October! 2024 Adopt-a-Chief: Xavier Worthy
Posts: 11,000

04-11-2006, 11:45 AM	#3
tyton75 Veteran Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: KC North Casino cash: $3738386	All I have to say is.. I'm all for LEGAL immigration, not ILLEGAL.. I don't care how long an ILLEGAL has been here, make it legal or get out
Posts: 3,334

04-11-2006, 11:45 AM	#4
Pitt Gorilla Banned! Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: NOT Columbia, MO 65201 Casino cash: $-99806	It's illegal; I'd say the laws should be enforced. __________________ Your son is a bench warmer because of your weak genetics not because of the coach Norlin Mommsen is disgusting.
Posts: 47,379

04-11-2006, 11:47 AM	#5
chagrin Giggitty! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt Casino cash: $9804905	I hear Rain Man is hiring __________________ Times have changed, so have I, things are better now.
Posts: 13,414

04-11-2006, 11:49 AM	#6
chagrin Giggitty! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt Casino cash: $9804905	I think that anything that folks like me say about it will be interpreted as being "racist", and furthermore we will be forced to listen to the 3 headed monster tell us how closed minded we are, I don't think this will work. __________________ Times have changed, so have I, things are better now.
Posts: 13,414

04-11-2006, 11:49 AM	#7
jspchief BAMF Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Your Face Casino cash: $9998710	I was listening to the radio about Australia's immigration policy, that is based on a point system. A few things you get points for: Higher education in your country or this one ability to speak english highly skilled professional I'm sure there are others, but the point is, the emphasis is on letting peopl in that are a boon to the tax pool, and make America smarter. Of course, that doesn't address the current illegal problem from our southern borders. I think the first step in resolving that issue is sealing the border from illegals. There's little sense in trying to bail water, when we haven't fixed (or even slowed) the leak. Any sort of amnesty program will just encourage the next wave to sneak in and get their free citizenship that the US hands out every 20 years. __________________ Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the judgment that something is more important than fear. The brave may not live forever but the cautious do not live at all.
Posts: 27,207

04-11-2006, 11:49 AM	#8
Katipan MER Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Colorado Casino cash: $-929649	Kick them all out and start over. Everyone drive to a field and pull up a cabbage on your way to work. __________________ "Loving him is red."
Posts: 23,637

04-11-2006, 11:51 AM	#9
Saulbadguy When a nightmare becomes real Join Date: Nov 2003 Casino cash: $736966	Set up an Ellis Island type deal to allowed faster processing of immigrants. Set up certain dates throughout the year when people can legally immigrate, and adhere to those standards. Declare amnesty for all those currently in the US, however, set restrictions on what they can and can not do, and if they decide to return to Mexico, they have to come back "legally" through the "Ellis Island". JMO - I think our friends to the South can be a huge asset rather than a burden. __________________ http://www.goemaw.com
Posts: 47,020

04-11-2006, 11:51 AM	#11
Rain Man Seize life. Be an ermine. Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: My house Casino cash: $-642449 VARSITY	Simple solution. 1. Enforce the laws. If we can't enforce them, we should change them to something more realistic. 2. If people want to come here and settle and be citizens and and join the American culture, fine. Our current system works for that. 3. If someone wants to come to America and make money and send it back to another country, then we charge them for a "guest worker" visa. We figure out the appropriate cost to ensure that we have enough low-skill workers, but not too many. We then use the money raised to increase border patrols and make sure that any people coming in to export money are paying a fee to do so. __________________ Active fan of the greatest team in NFL history.
Posts: 145,449

04-11-2006, 11:54 AM	#12
Mile High Mania #triggering Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: Tejas Casino cash: $937229	Living in Dallas, I'm very familiar with the issue, but I am by no means an expert on the topic. What drives me insane is people that get here illegally and are a burden on the system - taxes, schools, medical, etc. Yes - I understand that for the most part, they do the jobs that nobody else wants. In Dallas there is a TON of contstruction (new homes, roads, etc) that are likely benefiting from illegal immigrants. However, just b/c they're willing to work hard doesn't mean they should get a free pass. Cross the border LEGALLY and by all means you're welcomed with open arms. Yes, I know that situations on the other side of the border are not ideal, but there is a process. What kills me is all of these students protesting, skipping school to attend these rallies... I can only imagine that the great majority have no clue as to what they're really protesting. They see it as someone trying to keep the minority down. That's a story and a view I do not accept. Get into this country legally... pay your taxes and contribute. Otherwise, deal with your decisions. __________________
Posts: 30,910

04-11-2006, 11:55 AM	#13
Donger "Think BOOM!" Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W Casino cash: $6819900 VARSITY	1. Begin protecting our borders. Two warning shots, followed by a head shot. Also, a virtual fence of armed UAVs patrolling 24/7. 2. No amnesty for the criminals already here. They MUST return to their CoO and pay a fine. They can then apply for residency after three years, and comply with all standards that other legals do. 3. Any illegal still found in the country in violation of number 2 is deported and is never allowed residency. If re-enters illegally, he/she is summarily executed. __________________ I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
Posts: 191,135

04-11-2006, 11:56 AM	#15
chagrin Giggitty! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Missoula, Mt Casino cash: $9804905	Since one can duplicate almost any for of Identification these days, a card system is right out. I agree with the education and fee based system. Make them truly invest in their future by paying a fee, and somehow find a way to truly educate them about the History of this country. Whether you like the politics, the President or not, this NOT Deep Space Nine, it's not wayport for transient souls to come take advantage of the welfare system, not vote, not pay taxes, fuck like rabbits and have multiple children at will (for us citizens to pay for) and otherwise just "hang out" and smoke fuggin dope all day. We can all celebrate our heritage, but let me say this: My family has been in this country since 1840, my country is America. I will waive the AMERICAN flag anywhere I damn well please in AMERICA. Celebrate where you are from, that's fine, fly your flags, that's fine, but DO NOT FORGET that you live here, in America. Pay taxes like the rest of us. __________________ Times have changed, so have I, things are better now.
Posts: 13,414