Is the "spread" the new 3-4? - Page 2

Hootie · 02-18-2009, 03:19 PM

I kind of like Sam Bradford...but that's beyond the point.

I get what you're saying.

I'm all for Sanchez at #3. I really am...

But I flat out trust Pioli/Haley...

and a part of me is kind of rooting for Crabtree...only because of my newly acquired infatuation for Larry Fitzgerald.

Has anyone ever made a bigger name for themselves in one postseason? Christ...Fitzy put on a SHOW...

If Crabtree is 80% as good as Fitzgerald...

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-18-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hootie

I kind of like Sam Bradford...but that's beyond the point.

I get what you're saying.

I'm all for Sanchez at #3. I really am...

But I flat out trust Pioli/Haley...

and a part of me is kind of rooting for Crabtree...only because of my newly acquired infatuation for Larry Fitzgerald.

Has anyone ever made a bigger name for themselves in one postseason? Christ...Fitzy put on a SHOW...

If Crabtree is 80% as good as Fitzgerald...

You're thinking with your heart, not with your head.

You've admitted you don't really watch college football. I really cannot stress enough how wary you have to be of prospects coming from the spread.

Michael Crabtree has never shown that he can run a square in, a skinny post, or anything other than a two yard dig, a crossing route, or a 9 route.

Not only that, but the guy is slow. There's no other way to put it. He doesn't have the hands or the jumping ability of Fitzgerald.

And Sam Bradford has the easiest position to play in major college football. He was surrounded by three first day picks on the o-line, has pro receivers all around him, and he never has to throw the ball more than 12 yards.

His offense also allows him to throw to WRs matched up against the 4th and 5th CBs on Baylor and Iowa State. It's not exactly boot camp for the NFL.

Hootie · 02-18-2009, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You're thinking with your heart, not with your head.

You've admitted you don't really watch college football. I really cannot stress enough how wary you have to be of prospects coming from the spread.

Michael Crabtree has never shown that he can run a square in, a skinny post, or anything other than a two yard dig, a crossing route, or a 9 route.

Not only that, but the guy is slow. There's no other way to put it. He doesn't have the hands or the jumping ability of Fitzgerald.

And Sam Bradford has the easiest position to play in major college football. He was surrounded by three first day picks on the o-line, has pro receivers all around him, and he never has to throw the ball more than 12 yards.

His offense also allows him to throw to WRs matched up against the 4th and 5th CBs on Baylor and Iowa State. It's not exactly boot camp for the NFL.

True. I don't really watch college football...so I am pretty pointless around this time of the year.

Chiefnj2 · 02-18-2009, 03:35 PM

If Crabtree is slow how does he gain all those YAC? He seems to get pretty good separation after making a short catch and turning on the burners.

'Hamas' Jenkins · 02-18-2009, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chiefnj2

If Crabtree is slow how does he gain all those YAC? He seems to get pretty good separation after making a short catch and turning on the burners.

Because he's running away from two-star, fourth string CB recruits from Baylor. He's not being matched up against Malcolm Jenkins and Vontae Davis.

When CBs run a 4.7, it's not hard for a receiver to get good YAC.

CupidStunt · 02-18-2009, 03:54 PM

In a word, no. The spread only works in college because DLs, and defenses in general, suck ass. How'd the highest-scoring offense in CFB history, running a spread, do against Florida's defense?

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CupidStunt

In a word, no. The spread only works in college because DLs, and defenses in general, suck ass. How'd the highest-scoring offense in CFB history, running a spread, do against Florida's defense?

The Pats, Steelers, Chiefs and Dolphins all used the spread as their primary formation for at least the 2nd half of the last year. It worked pretty well for everyone but us. We have a crap o-line. Maybe it was the spread maybe it was out line maybe it was our constant red zone DROPS. Can you tell me unequivocally you know which it was that made us fail and the others succeed?

ChiefsCountry · 02-18-2009, 04:16 PM

I wish people would get in their heads about the differences in spread. The one the NFL team runs sans the Chiefs last year is not the college one.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

I wish people would get in their heads about the differences in spread. The one the NFL team runs sans the Chiefs last year is not the college one.

I agree, hence where I clarify that I can see the Pats/Steelers/Dolphins spreads (anywhere from 60/40 to 80/20) being adopted.

It is hard to say with the Chiefs because we had to cobble something together AND we just plain suck. Who knows what we would have run had we planned for running it AND had some talent... ANY talent.

ChiefsCountry · 02-18-2009, 04:34 PM

New England, Pittsburgh is not the spread offense. Being in shotgun doesnt mean you are a spread offense.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry

New England, Pittsburgh is not the spread offense. Being in shotgun doesnt mean you are a spread offense.

Both teams employed spread formations more often than not. Especially as the year wore on.

I watch football with a buddy who is a huge Steelers fan and a friend whose girlfriend is a huge Pats fan... I had to watch WAY too many of their games this last year.

As for the Dolphins, I didn't watch them much so my data is hearsay.

keg in kc · 02-18-2009, 06:13 PM

Both new england and pittsburgh are spread teams, there's no doubt at all about that.

As for whether the 'spread' is the new 3-4, no, it's not. It's been in the NFL for years and years, it's just gone under different names. The run-and-shoot used the spread, different variants of the WCO and coryell offense used the spread. It's nothing new and it's not a gimmick.

Now, if you want to talk about variants like the spread option or the pistol, I don't think either of those will ever be standard in the NFL. And I think the wildcat's a gimmick that was worn out even before the 2008 season ended.

Now, as to whether the spread will ever be the in-vogue offense in the NFL, it's hard to say. But my guess is since it's a copycat league, since so much emphasis in the rules has been put on offense, and because of how it's proliferated through college football, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if it did.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

Both new england and pittsburgh are spread teams, there's no doubt at all about that.

As for whether the 'spread' is the new 3-4, no, it's not. It's been in the NFL for years and years, it's just gone under different names. The run-and-shoot used the spread, different variants of the WCO and coryell offense used the spread. It's nothing new and it's not a gimmick.

Now, if you want to talk about variants like the spread option or the pistol, I don't think either of those will ever be standard in the NFL. And I think the wildcat's a gimmick that was worn out even before the 2008 season ended.

Now, as to whether the spread will ever be the in-vogue offense in the NFL, it's hard to say. But my guess is since it's a copycat league, since so much emphasis in the rules has been put on offense, and because of how it's proliferated through college football, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if it did.

I agree entirely with this EXCEPT that I think you are missing the comparison I was making... the 3-4 has been around for years as well... but I think that over time people realized it was easier to get the "talent" for a 3-4 and so it has become extremely popular... I am wondering if the entire league moves to spread heavy offenses for the same reason.

AT NO POINT am I advocating a spread option (hell I am not advocating anything...) but I am not sure that a spread team like the Pats couldn't also employ some of the "gimmicky" pistol and wildcat or spread-flex formations at some point as well.

keg in kc · 02-18-2009, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinChief

I agree entirely with this EXCEPT that I think you are missing the comparison I was making... the 3-4 has been around for years as well... but I think that over time people realized it was easier to get the "talent" for a 3-4 and so it has become extremely popular... I am wondering if the entire league moves to spread heavy offenses for the same reason

I don't know that I agree with the idea that over time the 3-4 has gotten more popular for personnel reasons. I think it's cyclical. The 3-4 will be popular, then the 4-3 will be popular, round and round we go. And I think it's a combination of what's most popular (read:effective) at the time (copycat league, so if the 3-4 seems to be working, more teams will use it) and entire coaching trees being built around certain schemes.

I think offenses are the same way.

**AustinChief** · 02-18-2009, 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keg in kc

I don't know that I agree with the idea that over time the 3-4 has gotten more popular for personnel reasons. I think it's cyclical. The 3-4 will be popular, then the 4-3 will be popular, round and round we go. And I think it's a combination of what's most popular (read:effective) at the time (copycat league, so if the 3-4 seems to be working, more teams will use it) and entire coaching trees being built around certain schemes.

I think offenses are the same way.

Fair enough. And that was what I was looking for... an argument for or against the actual premise

I can see what you are saying but I think the personnel issue could really become important as more of the big colleges move to a spread.

Harder and harder to find "traditional" QBs...

02-18-2009, 03:19 PM	#1
Hootie Banned Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Dallas, Texas Casino cash: $10004900	I kind of like Sam Bradford...but that's beyond the point. I get what you're saying. I'm all for Sanchez at #3. I really am... But I flat out trust Pioli/Haley... and a part of me is kind of rooting for Crabtree...only because of my newly acquired infatuation for Larry Fitzgerald. Has anyone ever made a bigger name for themselves in one postseason? Christ...Fitzy put on a SHOW... If Crabtree is 80% as good as Fitzgerald...
Posts: 56,356

02-18-2009, 03:35 PM	#4
Chiefnj2 In Search of a Life Join Date: Mar 2007 Casino cash: $6654388	If Crabtree is slow how does he gain all those YAC? He seems to get pretty good separation after making a short catch and turning on the burners. __________________ Mismanaging the clock.
Posts: 22,541

02-18-2009, 03:54 PM	#6
CupidStunt offense > defense Join Date: Jul 2005 Casino cash: $-846668	In a word, no. The spread only works in college because DLs, and defenses in general, suck ass. How'd the highest-scoring offense in CFB history, running a spread, do against Florida's defense?
Posts: 9,018

02-18-2009, 04:16 PM	#8
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1701248	I wish people would get in their heads about the differences in spread. The one the NFL team runs sans the Chiefs last year is not the college one.
Posts: 52,232

02-18-2009, 04:34 PM	#10
ChiefsCountry The Insider Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Lake of the Ozarks Casino cash: $-1701248	New England, Pittsburgh is not the spread offense. Being in shotgun doesnt mean you are a spread offense.
Posts: 52,232

02-18-2009, 06:13 PM	#12
keg in kc oxymoron Join Date: Feb 2001 Location: OP/KC/Whatever Casino cash: $9556299	Both new england and pittsburgh are spread teams, there's no doubt at all about that. As for whether the 'spread' is the new 3-4, no, it's not. It's been in the NFL for years and years, it's just gone under different names. The run-and-shoot used the spread, different variants of the WCO and coryell offense used the spread. It's nothing new and it's not a gimmick. Now, if you want to talk about variants like the spread option or the pistol, I don't think either of those will ever be standard in the NFL. And I think the wildcat's a gimmick that was worn out even before the 2008 season ended. Now, as to whether the spread will ever be the in-vogue offense in the NFL, it's hard to say. But my guess is since it's a copycat league, since so much emphasis in the rules has been put on offense, and because of how it's proliferated through college football, it wouldn't entirely surprise me if it did.
Posts: 58,682