Mike Vrabel

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

The chances of you finding that talent in the later rounds are REMOTE.

And you underrate what toughness and intelligence can get you. The Dolphins are NOT that talented. They just aren't. But they improved 10 games in part because of intangibles. One of those intangibles was a weak-ass schedule, but the Patriots and Jets had almost the same weak schedule and couldn't win more games than the 'phins. Part of that was ancillary stuff like injuries, etc., but don't ignore intangibles in the NFL.

This isn't the NBA where the team with the best 2-3 players wins every playoff series.

The Dolphins beat two teams with winning records. Two. They paid for a lot of FAs and signed a game manager to get up to that Carl Peterson era of mediocrity.

When they go 6-10 next year, people aren't going to be as impressed with that core.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

The Dolphins beat two teams with winning records. Two. They paid for a lot of FAs and signed a game manager to get up to that Carl Peterson era of mediocrity.

When they go 6-10 next year, people aren't going to be as impressed with that core.

6-10 is probably about right.

But you're all missing the point I'm trying to make anyway, so forget it.

Night all.

[RustShack]

Maybe the Chiefs will run some crazy ass hybrid that the NFL has never seen.

[BigRock]

We give up 7th for Vrabel = anyone seriously complaining is a ree-tee-ard

We give up 6th for Vrabel = perfectly acceptable

We give up 5th for Vrabel = ehhhhhh

We give up 4th for Vrabel = WTF? No.

We give up 3rd for Vrabel =

[CupidStunt]

Originally Posted by BigRock

We give up 7th for Vrabel = anyone seriously complaining is a ree-tee-ard

We give up 6th for Vrabel = perfectly acceptable

We give up 5th for Vrabel = ehhhhhh

We give up 4th for Vrabel = WTF? No.

We give up 3rd for Vrabel =

EXACTLY right. Some of the knucklehead know-it-alls around here are just hilarious in their meltdowns.

[Mecca]

I'm not saying yay or nay till we see what was given up...either way I expect alot of lower tiered cheap moves as opposed to 50 million for 1 guy.

[Ultra Peanut]

Originally Posted by Mecca

I'm not saying yay or nay till we see what was given up...either way I expect alot of lower tiered cheap moves as opposed to 50 million for 1 guy.

I hope we can be, like, the Oakland A's of the NFL.

[Mecca]

Just please tell me Amnorix you don't think we're trading the 3rd pick for Cassell.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

And people aren't understanding the anger over the Vrabel signing. Most of it stems from the move to a 3-4 which totally misuses our #5 overall pick from last year. To us, that seems ridiculously inflexible and hopelessly myopic. Whatever happened to fitting the scheme to suit your players.

Guys like Tamba Hali aren't world beaters, but he can give you 6-8 sacks from the left end position in the 4-3. That has value. Glenn Dorsey has Warren Sapp type ability in a 3-4, but he is too small to play the nose, and too short and too important to play the end.

Those guys are worth something, and if we are flushing their talents due to such a strong committment to a scheme which is no better than any other, I question the judgment involved in such move.

[Hammock Parties]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And people aren't understanding the anger over the Vrabel signing. Most of it stems from the move to a 3-4 which totally misuses our #5 overall pick from last year. To us, that seems ridiculously inflexible and hopelessly myopic. Whatever happened to fitting the scheme to suit your players.

Guys like Tamba Hali aren't world beaters, but he can give you 6-8 sacks from the left end position in the 4-3. That has value. Glenn Dorsey has Warren Sapp type ability in a 3-4, but he is too small to play the nose, and too short and too important to play the end.

Those guys are worth something, and if we are flushing their talents due to such a strong committment to a scheme which is no better than any other, I question the judgment involved in such move.

This is a good post.

The answer may be that Pioli thinks Dorsey isn't worth a shit.

[Amnorix]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And people aren't understanding the anger over the Vrabel signing. Most of it stems from the move to a 3-4 which totally misuses our #5 overall pick from last year. To us, that seems ridiculously inflexible and hopelessly myopic. Whatever happened to fitting the scheme to suit your players.

Guys like Tamba Hali aren't world beaters, but he can give you 6-8 sacks from the left end position in the 4-3. That has value. Glenn Dorsey has Warren Sapp type ability in a 3-4, but he is too small to play the nose, and too short and too important to play the end.

Those guys are worth something, and if we are flushing their talents due to such a strong committment to a scheme which is no better than any other, I question the judgment involved in such move.

What about last year's defense suggests that sticking to the 4-3 is a good idea. Far as I can tell, based on your current personnel, you suck at 4-3.

So why not switch to 3-4. For a while you'll no doubt suck at both as you transition, but in 2-3 years, which is the real timeline you're looking at anyway, you'll finally get good at something, presumably.

Also, I don't understand why Dorsey can't hope to succeed in the 3-4. Maybe he won't be ideal, but he should work in some form or fashion.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by Amnorix

What about last year's defense suggests that sticking to the 4-3 is a good idea. Far as I can tell, based on your current personnel, you suck at 4-3.

So why not switch to 3-4. For a while you'll no doubt suck at both as you transition, but in 2-3 years, which is the real timeline you're looking at anyway, you'll finally get good at something, presumably.

Also, I don't understand why Dorsey can't hope to succeed in the 3-4. Maybe he won't be ideal, but he should work in some form or fashion.

For one, our talent at 4-3 isn't wholly non-existent.

We ran a Cover 2 because Herm was hopelessly tied to it. A Cover 2 without a pass rush is basically a prevent defense.

We have a top 5 pick who is a Warren Sapp-like one gap penetrator, a LDE who put up 8 sacks in each of his first two years, and a SLB who, for all of his inconsistency, shows flashes of brilliance.

This team has the talent to be a good 4-3 attacking defense. Yes, we need upgrades at 2/3 LB spots and we need a right end. In the 3-4, we need upgrades everywhere.

And I've still yet to see a convincing argument that the 3-4 is an inherently better scheme than a 4-3.

But the main reason goes back to Dorsey.

If we had drafted Earl Campbell, how would people feel about splitting him out like the Rams did Marshall Faulk? A 3-4 is a complete waste of his abilities. He's not a space eater, he's a pocket collapser. He's not as tall as a guy like Richard Seymour, he's not suited to play a 3-4 end.

[txhawk]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

And people aren't understanding the anger over the Vrabel signing. Most of it stems from the move to a 3-4 which totally misuses our #5 overall pick from last year. To us, that seems ridiculously inflexible and hopelessly myopic. Whatever happened to fitting the scheme to suit your players.

Guys like Tamba Hali aren't world beaters, but he can give you 6-8 sacks from the left end position in the 4-3. That has value. Glenn Dorsey has Warren Sapp type ability in a 3-4, but he is too small to play the nose, and too short and too important to play the end.

Those guys are worth something, and if we are flushing their talents due to such a strong committment to a scheme which is no better than any other, I question the judgment involved in such move.

Outside of the young dbacks, this defense is screaming for an identity. The existing talent is marginal at best. Tamba Hali is flat out a bust this far. Sorry, the guy's just not that good. For where he was drafted, 6-8 sacks a season is weaker than snake shit.

And I think it's safe to say that DJ is underperforming for his salary and draft position.

Dorsey, based on one season, was terrible. But he at least has upside and perhaps trade value.

Point being in this all said is SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT YOUR LOSSES. The way things have been are unacceptable, and this old regime way of thinking some of you have is really quite unfortunate. THIS WILL NOT BE THE SAME TEAM. New management wants to show their merit and worth, and falling back on what was done here in the past equates to jack shit! Get used to it, because that's just the way of today's NFL.

But to suggest the 3-4 defense is not quickly becoming the best style of Defense is absurd. The confusion it creates for an opposing offense is wonderful thing to watch.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by txhawk

Outside of the young dbacks, this defense is screaming for an identity. The existing talent is marginal at best. Tamba Hali is flat out a bust this far. Sorry, the guy's just not that good. For where he was drafted, 6-8 sacks a season is weaker than snake shit.

And I think it's safe to say that DJ is underperforming for his salary and draft position.

Dorsey, based on one season, was terrible. But he at least has upside and perhaps trade value.

Point being in this all said is SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO CUT YOUR LOSSES. The way things have been are unacceptable, and this old regime way of thinking some of you have is really quite unfortunate. THIS WILL NOT BE THE SAME TEAM. New management wants to show their merit and worth, and falling back on what was done here in the past equates to jack shit! Get used to it, because that's just the way of today's NFL.

But to suggest the 3-4 defense is not quickly becoming the best style of Defense is absurd. The confusion it creates for an opposing offense is wonderful thing to watch.

How many LDEs give you more than 8 sacks a year? It's a small list. Aaron Kampman, Julius Peppers, Jevon Kearse way back in the day. I'm not saying that Hali is a pro bowl LDE, but he is an above average player at that position. No, he's not Reggie White, but defenses don't have 11 pro bowlers on them.

Johnson is again best suited as a downhill player. He led the league in TFL two years ago, it's not like he doesn't have talent. But when you are in a read and react defense, it causes you to lose your aggression. It's not a coincidence that guys like Kawika Mitchell leave and then become productive players elsewhere. Our coaching has been horrible for over a decade on the defensive side of the ball.

And I can show you the results. The average finish of the 3-4 defenses vs. the 4-3 defenses are virtually identical.

Schemes don't win games. Players do. The only reason the Ravens D was worth a shit was because of Haloti Ngata, Terrell Suggs, and Ed Reed.

Pittsburgh's D is carried by Harrison, Woodley, Polamalu, and Hampton.

Those teams have an embarrassment of riches. It's the same for the old Bucs teams, 6-7 PBs on one side of the ball, or the 2000 Ravens, a 4-3 team loaded with talent.

[Chiefnj2]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Schemes don't win games. Players do. .

Players win games when they are schemes that fit their skillset.